This is such a dumb take. I don’t trust raw milk, but those that do aren’t arguing it won’t spoil at room temperature. Like, I support buying local, free-range chicken meat. But if someone came up to me and said “Oh yea? Well if you like chicken without antibiotics and preservatives, why do you still refrigerate it?!” I’d look at them like a fucking idiot.
Maybe the joke isn’t particularly fair, maybe it doesn’t really need to be.
You have logical reasons to avoid antibiotics and preservatives. Someone might not agree, but whatever the case, you made that decision based on some amount of evidence.
Raw milk though… I think the meme is correct to equate anger with pasteurization as a denial of germ theory. We pasteurize and refrigerate for the same reason: to keep bacteria from growing. It is a fair question: if pasteurization is unnecessary, why is refrigeration necessary? Avoiding preservatives doesn’t beg the same question.
Tuberculosis has entered the chat.
And Campylobacter, Cryptosporidium, E. coli, Listeria, Brucella, Salmonella… It’s the Macy’s parade equivalent of preventable diseases by UHT and y’all been invited!
On the other hand, unrefrigerated raw milk is a fantastic way of meeting who’s who of the bacterial world.
But it’s natural! And natural always means it’s good for you, because I’m scared of chemicals despite not knowing what a chemical is because I can’t pronounce their names!
Exactly, Salmonella can be on its own a great way to boost your defenses*.
*If you survive it.
And if you die of a completely preventable disease, then it’s just natural selection!
Even though pasteurizing doesn’t add any chemicals to the milk either…
But it will take out the sweet, sweet taste of danger.
Yup
This post is stupid
For some people it’s the only culture they’ll ever have.
There’s a reason the milk man used to deliver every day
To bang my mom?
Why do you automatically discount your dad from being banged by the milk man as well?
The milkman always comes twice.
T’was a different time.
Meaning he probably still did bang some of the dads, it just wasn’t polite to talk about
Not to be that guy, but its ’twas. The apostrophe replace the i.
Oh, you’re t’hat guy
I like the milk man to deliver my milk in the morning or when I’m yawning.
Do you guys really drink milk? I don’t think I’ve had a glass of milk since I was like 14.
About 0,5L per day, yes
I like milk
It also goes into some of the food
I had oatmilk once at a vegan diner 6 years ago, and that was the end of me buying milk to drink. I only buy it now for baking/cooking.
I will have milk with things like cookies or chocolate cake. And milk is mandatory for Oreos.
I hate dipping cookies in milk. It doesn’t coat the cookie it just makes it sloppy. It might as well be water.
It adds to the creamy taste
it must for other people because people swear by it
For me though, it just tasted like I ran it under tap water.
Shitty milk tastes shitty. I have no understanding why schepps continues to exist. It’s like they have stripped everything that makes milk milk, and now just sell white water. I’m not a huge fan of Borden either, but that’s just a taste prefer. At least Borden is still milk.
People who drink 2% or 1% milk? WTF are you even doing with your life? Whole milk is only 3 or 3.5%, so how much fucking milk are you drinking that 1% less fat is going to save your life? Do you dip your cookies in that shit? Why do you hate yourself? Did you know that fat slows your digestion? By removing fat from your milk and cookies or milk and cereal you’re actually speeding up how fast the sugar hits your blood stream and increasing how concentrated it is going to be.
So, maybe you hate milk and cookies because you have been drinking shitty milk.Might be a patience thing too? Most cookies will take some time to really absorb a meaningful amount of milk. Like Oreos take a good 10 seconds submerged. You can see bubbles as milk replaces air in the cookie.
There are some rare cookies that will absorb the milk way faster, like Keebler Vienna Fingers will be soaked in like a couple of quick dunks.
My family used to drink milk for dinner. We probably went through ten liters of milk in a week. The top third of the fridge was always reserved for milk.
When i moved out i continued doing this for a while or eating cornflakes in milk, but eventually stopped because my adult body is not that fond of digesting milk. I eat crazy amounts of cheese though, but the well cured one that are low on lactose.
I have 4 kids between 16 and 6. I buy 6x 3L bottles of milk at a time and it barely lasts a week.
I think it’s used in a lot of ways that isn’t “drinking a glass of milk”. I suspect most milk is poured over cereal. It’s also used a lot in cooking, but insisting on raw milk to bake with seems especially weird.
It’s a national drink in the Netherlands
karnemelk. shudder
Same. It’s been at least 35 years since I drank a glass of cow juice.
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Does it… help? with butt stuff?
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Some do, some don’t. I don’t even have any idea how many people pour themselves a glass of milk.
I buy super small cartons when needed for baking or making ice cream.
I’ll have carton of almond milk maybe a few times a year. A glass of cow milk maybe once every few years and it will probably be chocolate
Normally in tea and stuff, and with cereal
Yes.
I always drink plenty of Malk, I don’t know why my bones are so brittle
Not trying to defend drinking raw milk but things do taste different at different temperatures.
I think there is confusion between raw milk, pasteurized milk and UHT milk. Only UHT milk doesn’t need to be refrigerated but it tastes horrible.
Only UHT milk doesn’t need to be refrigerated…
While it’s still sealed. Once opened, it needs to be refrigerated.
I’m that weird guy who prefers the cooked taste of UHT pasteurized milk.
Another weird UHT enjoyer here. If it weren’t so expensive where I’m at then I’d be having it more often
I hope it at least pleases you to know that in places where UHT milk is the norm, pasteurised milk is more expensive and sometimes simply not available. (I somewhat prefer that flavour)
Same
If I want that cooked flavor I open a can of evaporated (not condensed which has a lot of added sugar) milk. It’s yummy in coffee and any cooking/baking use.
There is decent UHT milk but it’s by no means the majority of the market.
I don’t get it. Isnt all milk to be refrigerated?
the post is highlighting the hypocrisy in refrigerating milk while also being against milk pasteurization, since both of those practices have been done for around a hundred years and serve to make milk last longer and be safer to drink.
This feels like a straw man. I don’t remember them making any arguments against using a refrigerator.
I mean fuck them, but fuck them on topic otherwise we are just huffing out own smug cloud and that doesn’t convince anyone.
They don’t make those arguments because they’re stupid and don’t understand what they’re talking about, but if they really had the problem with pasterisation, they would necessarily have to have problems with other methods of preventing bacteria growth, like refrigeration for example. The fact that they don’t is the signifyer on itself.
Ok, so there are two kinds of idiots.
- The idiot who actually doesn’t know any better. They are just following the misinformation wherever it goes because their friend on face book said it and they trust them or something like that. Unironically the bacteria is crunchy and good for you and the bad things aren’t real.
- The person you are talking about. The person who knows it is bad and knows what they are doing.
There are only a few 2s, most are 1s. Like 1 “2” for every 100000 “1”.
2s, as you have stated, don’t care. They know. They know their arguments are dumb and a misdirection. They will not engage with this meme, because they know what they are doing and they know it is wrong and they know that engaging with this will just out them and expose their bad takes.
Even if you get rid of all the 2s, 1s will self perpetuate. So you really should target the 1s.
The 1s are not aware of all of this 6d chess going on. So if you show them this meme, they are going to be confused because they have no problem with refrigeration and they are going to be mad because you are implying that they are dumb and you are not addressing their concerns. So they ignore us and don’t learn anything and we look like idiots. This is what the 2s want.
The thing is, pasteurization is an easy win for us. No need to overcomplicate it. Just tell the 1s and 2s the truth. Otherwise we end up looking like we don’t have an argument by making up positions they don’t have. If the 2s pipe up, we have the data and “It’s your life, if you want to risk getting deadly diseases tuberculosis, brucellosis, and E. coli, that is your choice”. If they go farther you can just say they are in a death cult, it’s easily winnable even if you are an ok debater.
Honestly the 1s are looking at this meme and must think it is some other group that is being targeted because they have no problems with refrigeration so this post is like 99% of people who agree with each other patting each other on the back. Fun, but not productive.
Just about every dairy product (butter, cheese, whey, buttermilk) was made as a way to keep milk safe for consumption. Rejecting pasteurization, which is just slightly warming up milk is incredibly obtuse and reeks of deliberate ignorance
maybe RFK(wasnt he behind all this nonsense?) is a secret militant vegan who wants to discourage people from drinking animal milk by making it harmful to humans(/s just in case)
Pasteurization aka boiling
Regular refrigerated shelf milk is not brought to the boiling temperature. It is brought to 71.5 C / 160.7 F for 15 seconds. The boiling temperature of milk is around 95 C.
ultra high temperature pasteurized milk is brought way above the boiling point (135 C) for 2 seconds, but you won’t find that in the refrigerated section. It will be sitting in a carton in an unrefrigerated aisle.
They put ultra pasteurized milk in the same cooler as regular milk in my neck of the woods. Same for egg nog.
Interesting, maybe it’s a perception thing? UHT is supposed to be shelf stable for like 6-9 months, although it might last even longer if refrigerated. I’d imagine I’d your area’s milk is normally refrigerated, then it could be hard to sell UHT milk to someone if it’s not even in the cooler at time of purchase.
Yeah I suspect it’s shaped location, but also if you’re used to milk being cold, it’s the place you’re going to look, and it’s going right in your fridge when you get home.
The reason for avoiding pasteurization is to maintain nutrients.
It’s got nothing to do with whatever ethic might require a person to purposefully invite infection, as this post seems to presuppose.
No, it’s just ignorance. Plus if it DID destroying nutrients in any meaningful sense, you would still get more nutrients because you wouldn’t be having constants diarrhea due to drinking raw milk.
So what scientific experiments have you conducted to come to this conclusion? Obviously, you can never trust a real scientist, right? So you must have done SOMETHING to come to this conclusion all on your own.
So tell me your methods. I’d love to see your groundbreaking findings, since you’re the smartest person in the world and no one will ever be able to trump your science.
Isn’t pasteurization just heating it up to kill the bacteria? I don’t remember all the details but it’s like not eating raw chicken or something similar.
A lot of continental Europeans drink UHT which only needs refrigerating once opened.
UHT is the opposite of raw milk.
Exactly
Pasteurized orange juice?
I meant ULTRA heat-treated.
Beyond pasteurized.
Or well-pasturised. UHT is what I call “baking milk,” because UHT adds a rather unpleasant note which results from heating, which is fine in baked goods but not nice to drink.
other than a couple of weirdos, who is actually out there drinking raw milk?
Quite a few weirdos, really.
Doesn’t raw milk have an even shorter shelf life?
Depends on how you look at it. Raw milk spoils at the same pace as [Edit: ultra-]pasteurized milk. Only for raw milk the counter starts ticking once the milk leaves the cow, whereas [Edit: ultra-]pasteurized milk remains sterile until you open the package.
Pasteurised doesn’t equal sterilised. Not sure ofcourse where you live since apparently that matters for this term since some places used pasteurised for what is double pasteurization and thermized for single pasteurization.
I know the pasteurised milk I buy will spoil in a matter of days, even if unopened. The only milk that will stay good unopened for months us UHT.
Thanks for the heads-up. I just checked the German Wikipedia article. Apparently there are several ‘levels’ of pasteurization ranging from 70°C through 150°C. Since I’ve only encountered the kill-all-that-has-ever-lived kind (UHT), I assumed that’s what everyone does.
in a way, no, because raw milk is already unsafe to drink by the time it’s packaged
+1 for this: I have very personal experience with an E.Coli outbreak in a small town in southern Utah in 2017. Although the infections did not come from raw milk directly, the infections were traced to the area where the milk was packaged - and albeit anecdotally, there were several related deaths over the years that I was aware of, that were never reported due to the…uh…unique religious background of the place.
so yeah, I mean…don’t let your children play in manure but also…don’t drink milk that you sanitize less than you sanitize your hands.
Actually the science on this shows that kids who grow up close to manure have lower incidence of allergies and other autoimmune problems.
before i knee-jerk react to this, i need to know:
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source? give me a link at minimum, preferably a scientific journal since you’re citing “the science” - much else isn’t gonna make the cut here.
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if this is the case, why did i and my peers have crippling allergies for the entirety of my childhood? we spent tons of time around manure, thousands of hours literally walking in it. we still couldn’t breathe outdoors without getting allergy symptoms.
edit: also, what does alleged lower incidence of allergies and “other autoimmune issues” have to do with the relation between playing around manure or drinking raw milk, and getting E.Coli infections/dying? those two are quite closely correlated, the “science” also shows that.
I can’t get deep into the search right now, but you can check the big overviews. It’s called the ‘Hygiene Hypothesis’ and it’s been a topic for quite a while. Some interesting articles that will get you in the general area are about some specific allergens, microbiome influence on allergens, and this one I can’t find a link for right now, but look up the research on Finnish children who became politically separated from their close relatives by a political border (when the USSR and the ‘western world’ became contentious and the flow of people became stymied). That one is particularly interesting because you have three populations: the USSR folks at the border (a rural area), the Finnish folks at the border (a rural area), and the Finnish folks away from the border in the urban areas. If I remember correctly, the Finnish word for autoimmune disorders has literal translation of ‘clean house disease’ or something similar.
What makes the border research interesting is you have two ‘western medicine’ groups split by the rural/urban divide and a rural ‘other’ category to compare to. I can’t remember if they had issues and couldn’t include the USSR urban group, or if it was too great of a divide genetically/diversity-wise to include to accurately compare without adding a third condition.
Yeah. Calling bullshit on this.
I’m the 2nd oldest of 7 kids. That house was never clean. We had all kinds of pets. I would play in the woods, make mud pies, catch weird bugs, eat wild berries and onion grass. I pretty much had the “go outside and play in the dirt to build character” childhood. I’ve got a couple of food allergies and pet dander allergies. My oldest sibling has an auto-immune issue, the ones just after me are pretty healthy, just some minor lactose intolerance, and the two youngest (from my step dad) have a bunch of weird allergies, like potatoes and milk.
It’s a genetic roll of the dice. The reason why allergies seem more common is because more kids are able to survive anaphylaxis at a young age thanks to modern medicine and quick emergency response times… Like I went through when I spontaneosly developed a severe fish allergy at 4 years old.
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So it doesn’t turn into yogurt?
My fridge isn’t full of raw milk or anything, but I think this goose is a better fit for the oven than guard duty.
Not sure if you’re joking but to make safe to eat yogurt, you’ll need to first kill the bad ones by heat, then cool it and once it is barren, you should invite the cool guys in like Lactobacillus bulgaricus, Streptococcus thermophilus, Lactobacillus acidophilus or Bifidobacterium lactis, they’ll need to be kept cosy and warm, and that will give you yogurt.
It’s a bit like making alcohol—it’s made through fermentation, but you want it to be very controlled.
Normally you’d want to sterilize the starting mix first to kill any undesired molds and bacteria, add the fermenting agent that you want (lactic acid producing bacteria in this case) and age it in a sealed container until ready.
If it starts with any contaminants or if any are introduced during fermentation, it’d spoil the batch and make you very sick if ingested.
regular milk also needs to be refrigerated tho
If your objective is to get sick then it needs to kept room in temperature.
So is having it raw in the first place.
The only acceptable use for raw milk is cheese. Give me a raw milk camembert any day.
OP definitely has some brain worms. RFK is that you?
I believe OP is joking
Poe’s law.
if you want cold milk just add ice
Yes, officer, this one right here.
Adding ice is ridiculous. Add Pepsi
pilk!
Please be joking, please be joking…
