Actually I looked up the real story of Johnny Appleseed and he was more about making hard cider and selling land. 🙃
This is actually a great representation of the difference in culture I’ve seen between the US and visiting a couple places in Europe and particularly Sweden.
I don’t know if actual public fruit tree orchards are a thing anywhere, but the general feel of “holy crap they can have nice things in shared spaces here” was everywhere.
I know of a golf course which has orchard trees on it and golfers are allowed to eat as much as they want.
So rich people get free food but not poor people 😂
Boots theory strikes again
There’s a park in Miami that is populated by fruit trees that people enjoy…and there’s an unspoken rule/law that any fruits that grow over a fence are fair game , just don’t climb my fence to steal my fucking mangos again Lisandra
Upvoting and replying in solidarity against fuuuckin’ Lisandra! ✊
There’s sort of one in the US city I live in. The city manages it and as far as I know they don’t care if you go pick a few apples. It is part of a public park that used to be a farm/orchard, then turned into a small golf course, then was partially sold off for housing development and the core farm/orchard area was either given to or bought by the city. It also has a community garden which always has a waitlist for new plots.
That’s the weird thing about the US: we do actually have nice things, and communities that want to improve things. We also have suburbia hellscape.
In my mom’s hometown there are fruit trees literally everywhere. Everyone and their dog has them. The public areas have them. The forests have them. There are fruit all over the ground. Nobody ‘steals’ or gathers to sell. They make alcohol and share it with anyone that comes within line of sight like pokemon trainers forcing you to battle. Also all of the kids are sick of eating the fruit but if they feel like eating any they don’t even have to pick it themselves because all the parents and grandparents will pick wash and even cut up the fruit and serve it on a platter with even the slightest hint of interest. I ate a lot of plums and pears and drank a fuckload of brandy.
What’s the town? You can’t just promise a bounty of food and not name-drop it.
Sounds like somewhere in the Balkans.
100% agree with this. Plums, pears, and brandy - I’d bet Serbia or Bulgaria, maaaaybe Bosnia.
I’m more interested in the moonshine battles. I don’t think I can outdrink small town shiners but by jove I’ll give it a shot.
For legal reasons I would rather not give the location of the blackberry moonshine still that doesn’t exist in my shed and can’t be bought or made for under £50.
If you made public fruit trees, someone would try to pick them clean and sell it at a fruit stand 20 miles away.
In the Republic, Plato proposed that any citizen could eat fruit from any tree so long as they were sitting underneath the tree that bore the fruit.
Then let’s get rid of money.
This is true and has led to my new system for evaluating economic systems, what does it do with antisocial people.
Capitalism is interesting in that it actually has a plan for them. Let them be greedy little fucks and the system works for a while. Then they fuck everything up and the system collapses, either in a minor correction every couple of years or into fascism.
I would love for something like socialism or communism to work, but there’s this 1% that would pick the trees clean to better their own lot.
I don’t have any answer, but I have come to the conclusion that every economic and social system should only be considered viable if there’s a reasonable and compelling solution for what to do with the guy that wants to pick the fruit tree clean.
the anarchist solution is to abolish property, meaning picking the fruit tree clean wouldn’t actually give you anything besides a bunch of rotting fruit and others will probably get angry and stop giving you the stuff they make
Then no one has fruit. There is a non-zero percent of the population who would pick the trees clean for that reason alone.
Anarchy, like capitalism, works best when all the actors are rational. People are not rational.
this isn’t a “people will manage the commons” argument; “that reason” is property itself which anarchism wants to abolish
I get the idea: if no one exclusively owns anything, then no one needs to hoard anything, and everyone gets what they need.
Unfortunately, we do not yet live in a post-scarcity society. There needs to be a way to both ensure that limited resources are distributed appropriately (by whatever metric) AND to ensure that someone doesn’t take more even when they are not acting in their own best interest.
To continue the apples analogy, it’s all fine and well to say that no one owns the apples so anyone can eat one whenever they want. In theory, no one would eat more than they can, so there would be enough to go around. But how do you handle someone who decides they want to control people by controlling the apples? If they take all the apples, then people will have to go to him if they want an apple, and they will have to pay some price for it (and I don’t mean cash). What is the mechanism to ensure that doesn’t happen? Or, what is the mechanism to prevent someone from burning down all the apple trees because they don’t like apples or because they want someone else to not have apples?
The idea that no one owns anything does not stop someone with an irrational mindset or with a mindset to force their will on others.
the idea is that everyone knows the idea that nobody owns anything, so they’ll boycott that person with zir rotting fruit and stop delivering their own stuff to zim so this person with the irrational mindset will have to confront that ze’s ostracized. (of course, ze could still steal stuff from them if ze wishes, but ze no longer have the social feelings of receiving a gift.) if there are no apples anywhere else they’re supposed to revolt and take the apples by force because of how used they are to the status quo, and if that person wants ze can start a hermit life somewhere else and ask for people to join zir quest about rotting fruit
This still depends on people behaving rationally. We need only look at the current state of things in the U. S. To know that people do not behave rationally on large groups.
Here we have a man who has declared he is in charge of things he was never given charge over, and doing things he has no authority to do. Rather than say “no,” enough people have simply shrugged their shoulders and said “okay,” or worse, are actively supporting his control.
You cannot depend on the majority to do the right thing at large scales. Small scales like a village, sure, but on a population level, most people are too apathetic. That makes it inevitable that those who desire power can take it, either by charisma or by force, and there will always be a group of people who will want that to happen and support them because they think they can get a piece of that pie. No amount of social stigma will help when someone controls the means for people to merely survive.
Unless you support vigilante justice, but we only need to look at lynch mobs in history to see how well THAT turns out. There is a reason we have due process, but due process requires a governing body.
Yeah I think the only way around that would be to plant so many trees that the fruit is basically worthless. Probably wouldn’t work in places with high population density
Rotting fruit is also a massive problem :) One of my relative had this HUGE fucking pear tree. When it hit pear season, they were begging people to come and take all they could. They would beg food pantries to organize, come and pick.
Canning, freezing, salting, curing, drying, baking … Aaaaaaaaa there are still more!
Have pear tree, can confirm. I used to fill my dumpster twice with rotten fallen pears. I figured out a new tactic though: let them fall, then leave the back gate open so the urban deer can come eat them.
By having a society with a culture that encourages empathy
This happens in low trust societies with scarce resources and even scarcer empathy as the result. Also known as “that’s why we cant’ have nice things”. However, not only it’s absolutely not universal, I don’t believe it’s even the majority
Yup, this whole ownership thing is totally fubar!
(and yes, I do prefer to own things too, but there could be a healthy middle ground)
private, public, and personal property are three different concepts. most anarcho-communists have no objection at all to personal property
BuT My tOoThBrUsH!!!
that why billionaires are good 🧠
There are literally zero leftist ideologies who have a problem with personal property.
Yes, I’m just saying before the ‘they’re taking your stuff!’ people come out 😉
saaame lol. it’s amazing how certain political positions are like “you know how civilization is fundamentally structured around violence? what if… we just… didn’t?”
and then people are like “THEY’RE TRYING TO TAKE AWAY OUR STRUCTURAL VIOLENCE, GET THEM!!!”
Apple seeds have like a one in 10k chance of producing a sweet apple that is nearly as good as what else is on the market, and like one in 100k for it to be better. Every other one comes out to a nearly inedible crab apple.
Always seemed like a cool hobby to me if I somehow became rich. It’s like a gamble that is just as much your time, as it is your money.
yeah but if you grow an apple tree with crappy fruit you can saw off branches and graft good branches from a good tree onto it so that it produces good apples, that is how nearly all apple orchards are
You can graft individual branches? :O
You can graft different kinds of fruit as well so the tree can have some branches with one variety and different branches with another.
Wait a minute
Are you telling me a tree can produce different types of fruit? Am I reading that right? A SINGLE tree???
What in the frankenstein bullshit is that???
deleted by creator
WHAT THE HELL
Yes, most commonly just different varieties of a fruit, but sometimes completely different fruits. You can have apples and pears, plums, you name it.
They can be quite pretty because the different branches will blossom and bear fruit at different times.
Yes, it can literally be done. Works best if the tree species are closely related. However, you can also get trees from different genus working together, so enjoy pears on an apple tree
peach, plum and cherry get along well
You can graft anything
I don’t know if that is really true. Yes apples will be different to the parent tree but I often eat from roadside apple trees which grew from discarded apple cores and plenty taste fine.
Yes I do have my favourite apple trees. Would be nice to get a press sometime tbh. Free cider! Maybe even calvados?
Then your lucky. I know someone who has an apple tree that’s semi edible (most of the apples finish with a slight sweetness). I also know dozens of people whose apples are only really useful for cider. Its all technically edible if your tongue can handle the acidity and astringency.
Get a press, cider making is fun. Don’t try to use a Jack Lallane juicer to feed through a couple bushells… Also don’t ask me how I know that.
Its tempting but they are not exactly cheap. Everything online that says “cheap and easy” clearly hasn’t looked at the price of timber lately, or has a very different idea to me as to what cheap means. Often using tools I don’t have too which doesn’t help. Normal people don’t have an entire workshop in their house.
Home depot has a small starter one for <50 near me that would probably be adequate if your not processing multiple bushells every year.
What sort of volume is reasonable for a small press? UK, never used bushells as a unit of measurement. Usually when they are growing I can go out on my bike and fill the bags on my bike each time I go out.
Is dedicated equipment for crushing them worth getting or just beat them to a pulp in a bucket or something?
Depends on how much time you want to spend. I would recommend most people no matter how much they have to get a small cheap one before investing more. You need a lot of apples/fruit before it’s worth getting something bigger/better.
A bushel of apples is like ~20 Kilos so maybe 2 or 3 bags? Not sure how big your bags are and how much you fill them.
You can buy a small 1.6 Gallon press for ~$50 and it would take ~3 pressing refills to process the bushel and will yield around 12 Liters of raw cider.
Sorry about the chaotic mix of units… I am American
they are still good for apple pies though.
162 comments and not one about lemon stealing whores.
Not sure if I’m disappointed or just old.
Yes, porn released in 2006 on DVD and uploaded to the internet in 2007 … You are surely very old …
I mean, it probably makes them at least 30. Im almost 30 and it feels quite old.
I was working as a private investigator in Hawaii between 1980 and 1988.
Tv show as well I suppose
No I have never been into TV too much. I am more of an active guy you could say. I love to watch baseball though, when Detroit is on, then I’m watching TV!
I wonder if that person would consider foraging for mushrooms and berries in the forest to be stealing as well.
It can be.
Poaching on the king’s land, you are!
Not all forests are public, and laws vary by location! Imagine that.
Bro literally says “in public spaces”.
Also; fuck private property and fuck the laws that protect it.
Can you point to the “bro” who “literally” said “in public spaces” in this thread?
. . . the picture you’re commenting on says “public spaces”. That is the context of the entire conversation.
You argued that “it can be” stealing “off a public tree”, now you’re claiming not all trees are public.
Are you trolling right now?
Well, how do you like them apples?
I like them free
My garden, or what’s left of it, is full of insects stealing it.
Ants can steal more than 10x their body weight in one go.
Let me introduce you to my neighbor Mr. Groundhog.
Over here it’s small mammals and birds that get most of the yard tree fruit.
Ants see it as legitimate salvage and will take you to court over it. Not worth the hassle tbh.
Industrious as fuck, but no sense of other people’s boundaries.
CALL THE COPS!!!
especially if those ants are black
/s it is so sad I have to specify a sarcasm tag here.
Get the falling fruit app and you’ll be able to find fruit trees in your area that are available for picking.
In my city, olives are PROLIFIC and I’m still eating last year’s loved that I picked and brined
Hahahaha I had a look and it lists the dumpster out back of Aldi near me.
" Dumpster (edible) Season January - December"
It does also list dumpsters that are viable for diving for food yes… But you can filter those out, if you want, I guess.
When I lived in the city, we caught people trespassing all the time stealing our fruit off our trees.
They would walk up our private driveway, and walk on our path near our front door, then load BAGS full and leave. I called them out as thief a few times, but those Mother F@$@ people just give a smug look back. These people were Pure evil. So happy to move to the country.
Before getting off notoriously racist Nextdoor, I did see a few folks complaining about this, they couldn’t harvest their own fruit crops because homeless folks would just come grab it all, usually before it was ripe enough to eat. This kicked off a big battle over who deserved the fruit more. Arguments that would have been better directed at the political leaders here who refuse to provide enough resources for the homeless. When we have to debate whether people can keep the fruit of their own trees, but we aren’t building shelters or allocating food at the macro level, then we have fallen deep in to the libertarian trap.
It’s people with Mercedes and BMW that steal from our trees, not homeless.
It’s pretty incredible, at least in the areas in the US where i have lived, to see who feels entitled to things and who does not.
They didn’t get rich by paying their fair shair…
Did you ever try peeing on them?
I imagine they walk too fast.
We do have fruit trees in my country and it’s even normal for people that live around parks to plant them. Funny enough I’ve never seen a homeless person taking a fruit, always families.
My US city has a few parks with apple trees, herb gardens, and other edibles. I don’t think there’s any law or rule against people going out and harvesting small individual use amounts as long as you don’t damage the plant. They do send out volunteer crews at harvest time (for the apples at least) and donate the harvest to food banks.
I don’t buy rosemary because there’s a bunch of parks around with rosemary bushes.
The seeds Johnny Appleseed used were sour and tasted like shit. They were used for making hard cider. No kids would eat them.
Cider production requires very sweet apples, because you’re looking for sugar.
It’s not a debate. This is just you being absolutely wrong about something, but being too stupid to do like 5 minutes of research before posting it.
A long time ago I visited Athens in January, it was relatively warm, but those oranges weren’t sour as they suppose to be, they were bitter, which I actually love. They are amazing at giving you this jolt of energy when you walk the mountains.
