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I would love to watch AOC beat up JD Vance.
I mean hell, I’d watch her beat anybody up. All the sweeter if it’s one of those goons.
Nobody is talking about the secret C option where a war “breaks out” in 2027, martial law is enacted, and elections are suspended.
I think that’s what most people assume he’s going to try to pull.
You’ve heard Escape From Tarkov, now get ready for Escape From America.
Don’t forget to loot a GPU or two on the way out.
thats what the iran war is for, serves a multipurpose role, to distract from EPSTEIN files, to use as excuse to suspend election, also distract from domestic problems like the over-reporting on ICE activites, All the gop trying to intergrate palantir/axon/flock cameras.
also include all the economic and health disease related problems.
Ah, the Gilead option…
are you guys counting on the us having elections again? i’m not really.
I’m more afraid of the option of pseudo elections. You get to cast a ballot, but then 103% vote for the orinj. The issue is that the average voter won’t know the difference because casting a ballot is the entire interaction with the system.
Trump is so old and nearing death. MAGA doesn’t love Vance or any ideology, they’re only invested in Trump. So, yes, I’m anticipating elections. Free and fair? Ehh but hopefully too big to rig.
Watch Thiel drop Vance for an ai Trump that he runs for president lmao
It’ll be Tucker Carlson vs. Gavin Newsom, Tucker will pretend to take a hardline stance against Israel and for universal healthcare, and Newsom will take a “moderate” position on both (which will be the same as Tucker’s actual position, but his voters won’t know that), then all the liberals will blame the left when Tucker wins. I’m a time traveler folks, I came back to make sure this doesn’t happen. Heed my warning!
The narrow-mindedness in that country is painful. As if you only have two flavors. An ice cream parlor even has more.
Weird.
I didn’t think AOC was a presidential candidate until after the primaries.
Maybe we shouldn’t be counting our chickens before they hatch.
Reminder that we live in a notably bigoted nation that has problems with women and people of color in positions of authority. Reminder that a lot of voters have issues with young and still relatively inexperienced politicians running for president. Not conservatives. They don’t give a fuck who they run for president. But other voters want experience. Reminder that to win we need to get some independents on our side and they definitely aren’t going to vote for a far left candidate if they vote left at all. Reminder that at this point, every time we lose, our democracy becomes much, much more threatened by the forces that want it gone.
I like AOC… What I don’t like is continuing to lose and watching our democracy erode.
Based on our bigoted nation, as far as my opinion is concerned, our current best bet to ACTUALLY WIN is Mark Kelly. He is male. He is white. He is more moderate. He has military service. He is a senator. He stood up to Trump in court and won. He is married to a politician who was shot in the head during an assassination attempt and survived. He has the experience and independents and bigots can vote for him without feeling like they’re betraying their beliefs.
And despite my OPINION I’m not posting posts pretending to assume he’s the chosen Democrat candidate for president years before the primaries even happen.
nah, the problem is that when a woman runs her entire campaign is, “I’m a woman”
Obama wasn’t like, “I deserve to win because it’s my time! I’m black”; he was just a chill ass dude who happened to be black
If democrats would stop with the victim hood shit and just focus on the fact that they’re generally good people who want to do good things, they’d win a lot more
That wasn’t true for either Clinton or Harris, the only two women to run for President for a major party AFAIK. It also true for Palin, who was a Vice Presidential candidate (so next in line for President).
The fact that all you saw was a woman running may say something about your information sources?
Running right-wing candidates hasn’t been working, and these “far left” candidates have been very popular. Maybe they should try it for a change. (I don’t see stuff like universal healthcare as “far left”, but I’m aware the US political spectrum has been fucked by both parties.)
What I don’t like is continuing to lose and watching our democracy erode.
What do you think these losses are caused by? I thought it was moving to the right and alienating your base, but that seems to be what you want.
Running right-wing candidates hasn’t been working
In no American reality is Mark Kelly right-wing. Neither was Kamala. The right in America has pulled so far right at this point that no Democrat candidate could be considered right wing.
and these “far left” candidates have been very popular.
Like Bernie Sanders, who lost the POPULAR VOTE in both primaries by a wide margin? Bernie was not as popular as the internet suggested, and I’d be willing to bet AOC isn’t either. And she has nowhere near the experience, and I’d argue charisma, Bernie has. And, as I mentioned above, woman and not white. Sucks, but that’s our trashcan nation.
Maybe they should try it for a change.
Hey, I’m onboard. Most of America isn’t though.
What do you think these losses are caused by?
Not great candidates? An avalanche of propaganda unlike the world has ever seen? Dem’s failure at effective messaging? The issue isn’t that we aren’t going far left enough. That’s just going to drive a significant chunk of voters away in this country. Going ultra far works great for a bigot fear-based conservative voter base. Not gonna work for a more nuanced liberal/independent voter base.
I thought it was moving to the right and alienating your base
The only widespread alienation I’ve witnessed is the Israel thing. That was a complicated geo-political situation that a bunch of people who fail at seeing the forest for the trees let drive a wedge between them and voting for what was best for our country. And now we have blatant fascism. Which I believe we will get more of if we keep gambling with super left candidates with other qualities that have been proven to be negative in this bigoted nation of ours.
In no American reality is Mark Kelly right-wing. Neither was Kamala. The right in America has pulled so far right at this point that no Democrat candidate could be considered right wing.
The center right party in the Weimar Republic wasn’t left winged just because they didn’t endorse the Nazi party. If we’re evaluating evaluation the democratic party under accepted geopolitical terms the vast majority would fall under the center right. Mm
Like Bernie Sanders, who lost the POPULAR VOTE in both primaries by a wide margin? Bernie was not as popular as the internet suggested,
Wh, the 2016 primaries were pretty close considering that the DNC was all but tipping the scales for Hillary.
Hey, I’m onboard. Most of America isn’t though.
Would be hard to tell, the DNC hasn’t actually gone through a fair primary in quite a while.
The issue isn’t that we aren’t going far left enough. That’s just going to drive a significant chunk of voters away in this country.
That’s just chasing after Republicans that are too ashamed to actually lable themselves as right winged. The “centrist” have already clearly signaled they’d rather have a fascist than pay a cent more in taxes. The only thing left to do is to galvanize young voters to the polls.
The only widespread alienation I’ve witnessed is the Israel thing. That was a complicated geo-political situation that a bunch of people who fail at seeing the forest for the trees let drive a wedge between them and voting for what was best for our country.
What long winded way to say that progressive voters don’t want to vote for someone advocating for a genocide… You are blaming voters for not showing up to the polls for baby killers.
And now we have blatant fascism. Which I believe we will get more of if we keep gambling with super left candidates with other qualities that have been proven to be negative in this bigoted nation of ours.
Such a high bar… Asking for a candidate that doesn’t endorse the genocide of Palestinians, we ask too much!
Kamala Harris was just too woke for the American public! You know, the fucking cop…
If we’re evaluating evaluation the democratic party under accepted geopolitical terms
We’re not. We’re evaluating it within the confines of the United States of America. And in the United States of America a party that supports creating and bolstering social support programs is on the left of the spectrum since the other side seeks to (and is) eliminating social support programs.
the 2016 primaries were pretty close
55% 34 states (Hillary) to 43% 23 states (Bernie). Personally I wouldn’t consider that close. Could have been worse.
Would be hard to tell
Not really. On a national scale far left candidates and 3rd parties get crushed to the point of irrelevancy. That’s pretty solid proof that, while they might be popular in deep liberal regions, they aren’t on a national level and can’t win a national election. That’s why I warn against thinking candidates like Bernie and AOC are popular because they’re big on the internet. Reality has proven there’s a big swath of America that is not represented by internet hype but show up at the polls.
That’s just chasing after Republicans
There aren’t just two types of voters in this country. There are a TON of independents. You will scare them away with far left candidates. AOC is a bridge too far for MANY voters. Just like Bernie was. Look at our country. Look where we are right now. We are deeply conservative. You can’t just leap frog us to a far left scenario. That’s wishful thinking and that’s what children do.
The only thing left to do is to galvanize young voters to the polls.
Young voter turnout is always awful. Everyone really thought this last one would be different. It wasn’t. They had bad turnout like they always do. A lot of people just don’t vote until they get older and more invested.
What long winded way to say that progressive voters don’t want to vote for someone advocating for a genocide
Great. Cool. Genocide. Awesome. The word of the year. Let me restart my counter for how many minutes I’ve gone without hearing it. Regardless of genocide, there was a better and worse choice to make regarding OUR OWN nation. People let a situation on the other side of the planet drive them to make a poor decision regarding their own nation. You can say the word “genocide” until the day you die, nothing changes that. If you don’t like ham are you going to starve or eat dogshit instead of just dealing with a ham sandwich? It’s not like the other option was NOT genocide. It was a guy being clear he was 100% onboard with Israel no matter what. How dumb do you have to be to not vote or vote 3rd party to help that guy win if you give any shits at all about Palestinians?
Such a high bar
My bar is not allowing an actual fascist from being placed in the highest office in our federal government which the Supreme Court gave almost unlimited powers to, and watching him systematically disassemble our federal government and violate our Constitutional rights. I do actually care more about preventing that than I do about a religious conflict taking place on the other side of the planet.
the fucking cop…
Oh no. A prosecutor (not cop) vs a felon rapist pedophile fascist or a 3rd party candidate with literally no path to victory, or not voting at all. Damn, this one is real hard. Better put my thinking cap on.
We’re not. We’re evaluating it within the confines of the United States of America.
That just cedes control of the overton window to the right and solidifies the idea that anything moderately progressive is depicted as socialism. Definitions matter, there is a reason they are attempting to veil center left ideas as radical communism.
55% 34 states (Hillary) to 43% 23 states (Bernie). Personally I wouldn’t consider that close. Could have been worse.
Again, that is without acknowledging the inside electioneering that the DNC got up to, including the rest of the moderate candidates bowing out at the last minute to not split the vote for Hilary.
On a national scale far left candidates and 3rd parties get crushed to the point of irrelevancy. That’s pretty solid proof that, while they might be popular in deep liberal regions, they aren’t on a national level and can’t win a national election.
And the last time there was a national election for a viable left winged candidate was…? Oh yeah 2016.
Bernie and AOC are popular because they’re big on the internet. Reality has proven there’s a big swath of America that is not represented by internet hype but show up at the polls.
Again, Bernie was broadly popular with Democrats and more popular in southern states than Hillary. Hillary won because she got the liberal strongholds, she lost to Sanders in the middle America you claim is critical of “the far left”. Which is why a lot of studies over that election have summized that Bernie would have been a better candidate to run against Trump.
There are a TON of independents. You will scare them away with far left candidates.
There are a ton of people who claim to be independent, in reality they just don’t like to lable themselves as a conservative or liberal. Only 7-15% of self described independent voters aren’t just leaners.
We are deeply conservative. You can’t just leap frog us to a far left scenario. That’s wishful thinking and that’s what children do.
The American people don’t really know what they want, they just want change. Which is why populist candidates have taken off on both sides of the isle. Most Americans are not politically educated enough to really define the difference between socialist, communist, liberal, conservative, libertarian, or fascist.
Young voter turnout is always awful. Everyone really thought this last one would be different. It wasn’t. They had bad turnout like they always do. A lot of people just don’t vote until they get older and more invested.
Because no party ever takes the time to reach out for their vote by offering them a significant reason to do so. The last time someone did decent outreach was 2008.
Regardless of genocide, there was a better and worse choice to make regarding OUR OWN nation. People let a situation on the other side of the planet drive them to make a poor decision regarding their own nation.
First of all, that’s an incredibly selfish and blackhearted assessment to make about our country helping kill children. Secondly, you are still blaming the voter for the DNC forcing a bad candidate without running a primary.
How dumb do you have to be to not vote or vote 3rd party to help that guy win if you give any shits at all about Palestinians?
When did I say I voted third party… I said I blame the DNC for running a candidate that was out of touch with the voter basis.
My bar is not allowing an actual fascist from being placed in the highest office in our federal government which the Supreme Court gave almost unlimited powers to, and watching him systematically disassemble our federal government and violate our Constitutional rights.
And yet that is still too much to ask for the DNC, who would rather lose than run anyone who wasn’t a centerist.
Oh no. A prosecutor (not cop) vs a felon rapist pedophile fascist or a 3rd party candidate with literally no path to victory, or not voting at all. Damn, this one is real hard. Better put my thinking cap on.
Yeah… Your only go to is to measure against the worst person in the world. We were talking about the DNC picking a candidate, not about the general election. There were plenty of other option other than choosing a walking corpse till the very last second and then when it was already too late picking the cop.
MARK Kelly is pretty conservative by democratic standards, he admits to it. and he defends zionism as of recently tainting his potential of a future presidency.
kamala was a woman, and poc, its enough for men to not vote for her, and yes its due to sexism. her stances on “israel/gaza” is pretty secondary to most voters, and only useful for muslim populations, like in michigan.
MARK Kelly
To be clear, Mark Kelly isn’t my favorite choice. Just the option I think is most likely to win as of right now. I’d love to join the far left bandwagon and scream AOC from the rooftops, but I’ve been around long enough to know she’s extremely unlikely to win the big one.
“New and relatively inexperienced” come now, can we not do this nonsense?
Begging for useless, “safe” centrist candidates is why the US is the way that it is. Mamdani and Al-Sayed and the other progressives seeing support is happening in real-time, so take this weird-ass attitude and shove it.
“New and relatively inexperienced” come now, can we not do this nonsense?
You saying something is nonsense doesn’t make it so. AOC would be the youngest president in U.S. history if elected. Her only experience is being a member of the House for 7 years. Only ONCE IN AMERICAN HISTORY (1880) has someone been elected president directly from the House. And I’m not going to accept the argument about Trump having no experience. Liberals are not conservatives. Conservatives openly support felon rapist pedophiles who regularly violate our Constitution and this is not the first time they’ve elected a TV personality to be president. There is no valuable comparison between us and them.
Begging for useless
How is Mark Kelly useless? He has more experience than AOC and has qualities that connect him with a higher percentage of Americans. The internet doesn’t represent reality. If it did Bernie Sanders would be president. Just because AOC is liked on Reddit/Lemmy doesn’t mean she stands a better chance than Mark Kelly or makes him “useless”.
centrist
Mark Kelly wants to abolish the filibuster in order to pass voting rights legislation. He wants to increase the minimum wage. He is pro choice. He wants to codify Roe v Wade. These are definitely left leaning beliefs.
Mamdani and Al-Sayed and the other progressives seeing support is happening in real-time
Mamdani can never win a national election because he can never become president. He won an election in a DEEP blue area of our country. Al-Sayed has not won the governorship yet. And winning a governorship is a WHOLE DIFFERENT BALLGAME to winning a national election in which he’d have to get racist ass middle America to vote for him, or not vote against him, which simply wouldn’t happen.
so take this weird-ass attitude and shove it.
Nah kid. You need to stop allowing your EMOTIONS to dictate your beliefs and start accepting the reality you live in and work within that reality to get as close as possible to what you want. Because enough other people exist in this world that don’t want what you want to keep you from having exactly what you want. And the fact that far left candidates and 3rd parties keep losing on a national scale should be enough proof for you. Because right now you don’t seem to grasp the difference between a national, federal election and every other election.
Zohran Mamdani only had 4 years of experience before becoming a highly effective mayor of fucking New York City, are you high off your fucking balls?! Experience doesn’t mean jack shit if it’s just been decades of being terrible at your job. Being old doesn’t mean jack-shit unless you’re old and bitter that younger people are better than you at stuff.
I’m talking specifically about you walking in here feeling yourself up because you don’t have any fight left in you. Yes, I’m sure this Kelly fella wouldn’t be the end of the world but oh my god ya’ll are fucking cowards. Frankly, so are us Canadians for the exact same reasons. You lose because you’ve decided you’re gunna lose before anything has even started, and you lose because the only thoughts in your head are based on propaganda.
“I would vote for _____ but they might not win so…“ actually piss off to the bottom of the ocean.
Zohran Mamdani only had 4 years of experience before becoming a highly effective mayor of fucking New York City, are you high off your fucking balls?!
Again. You fail to see the difference between a mayoral election in a deep blue city and a national election involving millions upon millions of bigots in the right geographical areas to win a national election.
We cannot have a meaningful interaction until you are able to discern between the two.
If you are an adult, you have to accept that different candidates have different qualities and those qualities can make them more or less electable based on the type of election they are in. If you vote for someone that doesn’t have electable qualities within the system the election is taking place, you are wasting your vote.
Newsom would absolutely smoke anything the Republicans put up.
Then he would fail to accomplish anything meaningful, continue unpopular policies and while quibbling about the “feasibility” of popular policies. Then the republicans take back the house and senate in the next mid term, and he looses the next presidential election to another wacko facist.
Any candidate democrats put up in the next election will probably win, the question is what happens after that. Real reform and energetic leadership is needed and that’s just not what newsome brings to the table.
This already seems like a best-case scenario tbh.
2 years out from the election, Democratic establishment operatives are already going around and manufacturing consent for “settling” for Gavin Newsom. If that is the response to AOC not denying she may run, imagine what will come when she does announce. I’m expecting a tsunami of “she’s unelectible” sabotage, like they did to Bernie twice.
Remember how Trump was unelectable?
Which is why Hillary’s team gave him active support in winning the Republican primary before stealing the Democratic one
Fucking Option B, please.
Not terminally online leftists and tankies once again pissing away any chance of success because the progressive DSA candidate who’s offering universal healthcare, free college, better education, public transportation, bodily autonomy, a better democracy and ending the wars apparently doesn’t actually fit their world view.
If they can’t get the zombie of Karl Marx risen from the grave to run, they would rather be led by right wing christian nationalist pedophiles.
You know the person who made this visual psychosis actually believed it, but fuck if it isn’t the funniest thing I’ve seen all day.
Marx would despise tankies. None of them understand his work
Pfff, Marx wouldn’t be marxist enough for them.
What you need to understand, according to tankies, is: bOtH sIdEs SaMe.
Yeah, I mean this feels exactly the same as when Biden was president. Right? Right?
Shaken 8-ball says…
YES
Hrm, wait, lemme try shaking it again…
Shake it harder, because apparently it’s a fucking idiot.
Shaking it again, it clarifies:
Diarrhea forever is good when Russia, North Korea, or China offers it, and free puppies are bad when offered by any Western civilization
So yeah, a fucking idiot.
I would probably vote for her. That doesn’t change the fact that she’s a bad candidate. If it were up to me, it’d probably be Elizabeth Warren or Tim Walz.
This will almost certainly not be the matchup, though. Republicans are not going to run Vance. Don’t be silly. Nobody likes him. It’s gonna be like, Carlson v. Newsom.
Tim Waltz? The guy who folded in a debate against the blueberry and a few months ago announces he was giving up? That cat is a broke reed.
Why is she a bad candidate? Not a bait question. Interested in the take.
She doesn’t inspire a lot of confidence. She has a lot of good positions, but I haven’t heard her articulate them well. She said that Harris was “working tirelessly to secure a cease-fire in Gaza”, something which we know wasn’t true, and more recently brushed off Black Lives Matter, etc. as 'Woke 1 was craazzyyy ᕕ(ᐛ)ᕗ"
There’s a good article about her backpedaling here.
There has to be somebody better.
It’s literally just racist misogyny. They cannot be convinced that Clinton and Kamala being women isn’t the sole reason (with the addition of brown skin for Kamala) they lost despite the many failings of both if their campaigns.
Definitely wasn’t the sole reason. But it was one of them.
A lot of these guys think there’s loads and loads of centrist voters who the DNC can sway with a more moderate candidate. It’s failed to work repeatedly because most “independent centrists” are just racist ass Republicans who don’t want their families to know they’re pieces of shit. If you’re not anti GOP at this point, you’re a lost cause afaic.
The hype a candidate like AOC could muster with younger generations is what they should be aiming for, but they don’t donate or vote in primaries so they’ll be ignored and won’t turn out, again.
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Woman
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Not white
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Inexperienced
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Would be youngest president in history
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Too far left
These things may not matter to you, the inexperience is the only one that matters to me, but I absolutely promise you they matter to a significant number of Americans. Significant enough to put another Republican in control and further erode our already eroding democracy.
Gambling isn’t smart. Especially when you’re gambling with democracy. AOC is a biiiiiig gamble.
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Something I keep seeing on Lemmy is that she sided with Israel instead of Palestine. To me, that feels like a terrible argument. Neither threatens US. Yet I don’t see arguments how Trump sided with Russia while Harris would side with Europe. You know, the Russia that also actively seeks to destroy US.
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Republicans are not going to run Vance.
They’ll run whoever starts openly expressing bigoted views. That has been conclusively proven.
Republicans do like Vance. But they probably like Rubio more.
Yeah but black people might get free puppies also so I gotta vote republican/s
At least it isn’t those darn injun people getting free puppies. (Heavy /s too)
Is she actually running for President?
Per an article from last week, she hasn’t “ruled it out” but hasn’t committed to it either.
America hates women though
And people of color in positions of authority.
These are things the left apparently refuses to accept about our nation, to the point of being willing to lose and watch our democracy erode.
I get it. A black man was president. He was also a black man with A LOT of charisma and experience and a senator and older than AOC, who would be the youngest president in U.S. history if elected.
Winning and protecting our democracy is more important to me than sitting on a throne of ideals on the losing side.
Mostly the middle part of America.
Can we throw Satan in there as a Green Party candidate?
Trying to split Republican votes, diabolical.
Satan’s like one of those characters who has all the right ideas but would never run because they don’t want the job. Like Jon Stewart.
jon ✍️ stewart ✍️ is ✍️ satan ✍️
Satan does like to spread knowledge
Sure, if you want to just throw your vote away.
Then I expect UM to be all aboard for Satan
Giant loser vs cool girl who gets it
Centrists: “Why can’t we have puppies with diarrhea forever?”
