The conversations are amazing
There’s a bunch of Chinese posts asking if the stuff about school shootings, fires, homelessness are exaggerated propaganda only to be told otherwise. It’s both hilarious and sad.
People of the US and China are both unsure of what to believe about the other, because both are so propagandized lol
Who told you that the people of China are propagandized, especially to hate other countries and peoples as much as the US does?
Woah I never recognized your username in the wild before. Thanks for giving us Lemmy. Huge fan.
No probs!
Their access to news is controlled and for some topics all available news is what we’d call propaganda. Particularly anything about Japan or the Taiwan issue. Most people I know there realize this to an extent but without any other information do still believe the core idea even if skeptical of details.
But at the same time I’d argue there’s no such thing as a population that’s not propagandized. In the US the big news corporations only will present views favorable to their profitability and continued growth. Sure they disagree with eachother, but it’s still always a pro-business view. State news from Russia is (I’d argue rightly) not available on many US platforms to discourage it’s influence for example.
The US does NOT have a free press and is not at all interested in freedom and free speech. Notice that there are no socialists or leftists of any kind on any news channel or in political leadership positions.
This is just untrue. There is plenty of legal press in the US of any persuasion, from anarchist to fascist.
The major US news outlets are in bed with capitalists because that’s where the money is, but there are lots of smaller outlets with other views. In China all news outlets kowtow to the government because anything else is illegal.
In China all news outlets kowtow to the government because anything else is illegal.
This is what our media tell us about their media. In every country the media kowtow to the government to some extent, but I’m not sure to exactly what extent they actually do in China, and I’m not going to take our media’s word for what that extent is.
If you do not know the extent of pressure asserted on Chinese media that is willful ignorance.
Of course “our media” (whatever you mean by that) is the only media that can report on it as Chinese media is heavily censored.
If you want to know the extent the information easy to find.
Here’s some of what Reporters Without Borders have to say
“The People’s Republic of China (PRC) is the world’s largest prison for journalists, and its regime conducts a campaign of repression against journalism and the right to information worldwide.”
“The Propaganda Department of the Chinese Communist Party sends a detailed notice to all media every day that includes editorial guidelines and censored topics.”
“Independent journalists and bloggers who dare to report “sensitive” information are often placed under surveillance, harassed, detained, and, in some cases, tortured.”
Source: https://rsf.org/en/country/china
This is from The Committee to Protect Journalists
“China has long ranked as one of the world’s worst jailers of journalists. Censorship makes the exact number of journalists jailed there notoriously difficult to determine, but Beijing’s media crackdown has widened in recent years”
Here’s Amnesty International
“Chinese authorities continued to severely curtail rights to freedoms of expression, association and peaceful assembly, including through the abusive application of laws often under the pretext of preserving national security.”
Source: https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/asia-and-the-pacific/east-asia/china/report-china/
Mostly agree with this take. I just wanted to add some nuance. I was talking to a friend about Gaza/Israel-protests in my country and said that the media doesn’t show everything. He then told a story about the protests that was supposedly not covered in the media. However, I had literally just read about that story in my newspaper.
Point is, there is some freedom of press (at least in my country) and the press is fairly pluralistic. However, to really find out what’s going on you need to read i.) several sources, and ii.) continue to focus on events after journalists took the effort to dig down. That’s a big ask for many people. And the stories that come out first tend to be most biased.
Friends of mine who have moved away from China. One of them had police at their door in China for social media posts that were friendly to Uyghurs (not even anything to do with the genocide, just general friendliness as a “we’re all Chinese” kind of message). Being taken to police stations for even slightly questioning the state narrative is terrifying.
Source: I heard it in a dream
Source: a friend of mine personally telling me what happened the last time he was in mainland China.
Zero possibility that this friend lied?
Some people love to lie especially if it gets a rise out of people. “Defectors” including the likes of Yeonmi Park from the DPRK also are financially incentivised to lie. I know people that lie about shit in the UK to make things sound worse than it is, and they will swear up and down it’s true after being called out on it.
Scroll down, addressed this three times in this thread already.
You mean how both China, and the US propagandize their citizens? Yeah, I’m fully aware of that already. All states will do it, as a system of control over the working class, in order to continue to exploit them.
I mean, if controlling the people wasn’t the goal, whats the purpose of the oppression of a state?
School shootings is something uniquely american. Even México doesn’t have them and we have a decent amount of narcojuniors (rich sons of drug dealers) that would have plenty access to guns, the only time i remember a school shooting happening it was in a private school in Monterrey like 7 years ago, which is pretty much the most americanized part of México.
I’m reminded of that ex Soviet joke about how they always knew the government was lying about their own countries but were shocked to learn it was telling the truth about america
It’s honestly very wholesome to see this kind of interaction. On top of cute moments like Chinese users telling the new US users that they are their “spies,” seeing a lot of blatant myth dispelling surrounding the PRC is great to help tear down the Red Scare.
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My own father asked me unironically if I was a “Chinese sympathizer” over dinner last night, and that was not the end of it.
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If banning tik tok ends up galvanizing demand for healthcare reform I’m going to laugh my ass off
Good comrades like Lady Izdihar are taking off in a big way, might help radicalize a lot of people towards Marxism even.
Rednote’s algorithm seems very receptive to communist content, at least compared to what I’m used to. Hope it stays that way.
Me too!
Xi Chadping
Xigma male
Circle jerking about China is as ridiculous as circle jerking about the US. We’ve been here before with US vs USSR, but this time everyone has a megaphone and an IQ that can be measured with a ruler.
I mean isn’t this more "circle jerking " about dismantling state propaganda? Interacting with those you were told are your enemy?
Besides, people should always celebrate the positives, and look towards them as something that is possible in their country too.
And as an fyi: when we were here before, the workers revolution in Russia was new. The achievements were so profound that workers in North America began demanding similar concessions from our governments. There was a real threat of overthrowing the existing power structures. And what happened? Weekends, literacy, healthcare, just generally improved living conditions. To dismiss cultural exchange as circle jerking is to ignore history and the power that comes with knowing things are better elsewhere, and that you can have that too.
Fuck yeah
You keep on coping there little buddy. What’s happening is that regular people from both countries are now talking directly to each other, and finding out what life is actually like.
Uhhh, not exactly regular people. From what I’ve seen from the Rednote, at least my feed is wealthy upper-middle or upper class, while the Americans are from low to middle class.
not what I see in my feed, might depend on the interests you picked and whom you followed, etc
If what you’re trying to get at is that whereas it is very important to unlearn the lies and exaggerations one was told about a country, that people also need to avoid replacing these lies with an overly simplistic and uncritical understanding of that same country, and that the current social media landscape makes it very difficult for many people to have the necessary nuance to avoid this pitfall… Then I would agree with you, but I’d also tell you that mentioning the eugenicists’ favorite way of measuring “intelligence” is a very bad way of phrasing this idea, and that your standards of what counts as “circle-jerking” about a country are probably not nearly as inviting of nuance as you’d think.
Niether Moscow or Washington, but somehow Washington actually
Eh, there’s truth and lies on both sides. Coming from someone that lived in china for 4 years and was able to engage with Chinese primary news sources. But basic healthcare in china is faster and cheaper, but then again I went to get a wart removed and they prescribed me acorn paste that accelerated the growth of the wart. So win some lose some.
Everyone pretending Europe doesn’t exist? Most countries have most healthcare for “free” (mandatory healthcare taxes).
Eh… as someone living in western Europe, I can’t say it’s free. I would say that it’s subsidized at most. We still have to pay a part of our healthcare, we can get a private health insurance to complete the government coverage, but it’s still not enough to cover all of it.
Mental health isn’t covered at all, ophtalmology barely (still gotta pay 200€ for a pair of glasses, after public + private coverage), dental only the very basic is covered…
The kinda people joining Rednote right now are not the same kinda people who know alot about geopolitics, or honestly anything beyond their personal bubble. Yeah, they’re just gonna keep pretending Europe doesn’t exist.
Lmao
They could, but they dont want to.
The ban discussion originated during the 2020 election when Trump didn’t like the information being spread there as he thought it aligned more with left wing policies. So he wanted it banned. People kept pushing the “it’s bad for kids” bullshit to keep it rolling until it finally went into effect. The Democrats didn’t try to stop it, and the people voted back in the person who wanted it banned. So effectively, they did vote for it in a way.
Trump wanted the ban when he was in office, Biden actually did the ban when he was in office.
Who could I have voted for to keep it from being banned?
Votes:
R- 186 FOR 25 AGAINST
D- 174 FOR 33 AGAINST
A veto is over road by 2/3 vote in Congress… Meaning NO president could have vetod it. So yes I place it on the person who started the process and all of those who voted for it in the house/ Senate.
Clearly meaning that Biden did not “do the ban” But don’t let facts get in the way of a good story
Don’t change the subject, since the ban discussion originated in 2020 who could I have voted for to stop it from happening?
Everyone on my ballot, both republican and democrat all support the ban
Change the subject? You just said Biden could have vetod it and I gave you the facts that he could not have done shit about it. What mental gymnastics is that shit. Also congress who made it impossible to override is voted in every 2 years. So being that there have been 2 votes for Congress since 2020 that you ask of, you could have voted to replace the entire house twice since then.
you could have voted to replace the entire house twice since then.
Replace with who? Everyone on my ballot was for the ban
(edit: also I never said Biden could have vetoed it, I just said that he did the ban, because he signed it and has been publicly in favor of it)
Everyone on your ballot was for the ban and they were people trying to represent you. Either that means you have an opinion differing from the majority of the population in your area, or the people in your area need to find new candidates. I know in my area I am vastly different than what the majority wants. Shit, every person at my work wanted the ban. Coworker was yelling about how much he hates anyone against Trump and that he’s glad they are banning Tik Tok. He listens to far right propaganda on the radio daily that’s anti trans, anti immigrants, and I hear them claiming that all of the positions he is filling are their by merit, and that none of the positions Democrats fill are their by merit, just sponsorship. It’s a broken 2 party system. (Yes, The broken part was redundant)
That’s how democracy works though, either you agree with the majority, tolerate the majority opinion, or you have to work to change the majority opinion, or leave.
I think what many of us are overlooking is that the representatives on average are almost 60, over 60 in the Senate. 60 years olds in average don’t care what 20 year olds want, they think they know what’s best for the 20 year olds future, applying information that may have been valid 30 years ago. Their kids are older than 20, and they already disagree with their opinions.
We need to get the average Congress member age down to 40, senators 45 and force all members older than 65 to retire and take on advisory roles only. A 65 year old does not remember working paycheck to paycheck and what the struggles of everyday Americans are. They only care about how to grow their investments. If their car breaks down, they have enough money to get another, rent a car until its fixed, or simply schedule rides without fear of true disaster. The percentage of Americans that if their car breaks down will lose their jobs, apartments, not be able to afford food, and become homeless which is becoming illegal as well is increasing day after day.
The majority of Americans can not simply take a bus to work, nor walk there. A new car is outrageously out of reach for many people, and used car prices aren’t cheap either.
I wanted to join a rugby team to get more exercise and get in better shape. The sole reason I decided not to was because if I get injured, say break an arm… I would lose my job. And that’s before I say I couldn’t afford the medical bills to go to the doctor anyways.
A 60+ year old Congress member will just call the youth overweight and lazy… but shit. At 35 I know ive worked harder than many I know, but the risk aversion I take to avoid ruin is real. There is no community pool around here, I could never afford one of my own. No sidewalks, and there will be ice everywhere for another month or so… so I’m not going to try bike riding and go over ice on 2 wheels. I should be trying to find more hiking trails… that’s about all I might be able to find that is risk adverse exercise around here.
I get what you mean about the candidates for Congress, it seems they aren’t any great ones. We need to figure out a way to change that.
People are people no matter where they live, which also means you can’t trust any government anywhere. Propaganda is powerful.
The idea of a social credit score has always been hilarious to me, like yo bros we have credit scores over here and they legitimately fuck us over since you need good credit to do alot of things like renting a place to live.
Norway actually does.
Source: Am norwegiam. Am parent.In the US? Lol, no.
Source: I work with a bunch of Texans.If only…
As a civ player, I know a cultural victory when I see one.
Truth: the strongest propaganda.
wow the level of cope in this thread (thankfully not that many tho) arguing over stats - which are probably made up anyway.
some people can’t handle that most humans just wanna be friends regardless of gov politics bs
I’m getting tired of all this propaganda… I honestly may leave Lemmy if this keeps up.
“Everything” we’ve heard about China is a lie? Are you people for fucking real?
Lol people actually believed that social credit score bullshit?
Plenty of people also still believe the secret Chinese police stations bullshit.
does it surprise you when a non neglible amount of americans believe the earth is flat? or that vaccines have nanomachines to control your brain? 😂
I mean I feel real stupid reading into it, but up until now, yes
But… social credit literally is real… There are government legislations on this. It is not a conspiracy theory.
On the other hand Western media definitely has exaggerated and demonized it a lot. The social credit is basically your credit score, but it is more expansive and uses information some might see as encroaching on their personal privacy and freedoms.
The credit score in China is to keep tabs on businesses to prevent corruption and excesses, just basic things the US used to do back in the 1950s, but would now be considered “authoritarian”.
The credit scores in the US are used to prevent regular people from getting housing.
American here, yes. To be fair I don’t think about China a lot.
Just goes to show you how deeply permeating the Red Scare is. Reminds me of that “exploding helmets” story that was obviously bogus but peddled as though it was true.
That’s one I never even heard of until now! I’m not surprised that the CIA-backed Falun Gong’s Epoch Times covered it: China Develops Helmets for Soldiers With Self-Destruct Button: Report. You can just make up any zany thing about the US’s designated baddies, and people will buy it.
Yep, I remember that one as it came out. Super silly.
It’s funny that Xiaohongshu is popping off right on the cusp of a TikTok ban. They’re not even flocking to established US alternatives.
its likely that tiktok users already had accs on US alternatives.
The fact that Xiaohongshu is Chinese is the point, it’s a protest against banning Chinese Social Media without holding US-based Social Media to the same standard.
