Texan here, working for a school district where these types of laws have already been implemented: I’m pretty sure it’s about controlling narratives, not improving education.
Kids use their phones to fact-check teachers, record teachers improperly addressing students, record fights, and verifiably report on very real issues within the school. I haven’t seen any educational benefits from banning cell phones, only that it’s been easier to sweep stories under the rug and to refute concerning complaints from children in need.
this is nonsense.
Oh okay, my bad. I guess I’ll just change what I see and hear.
I live in CT, and I guess I’ll just lie about what I see and hear too?
We mine as well live in different countries tbh
We mine as well live in different countries tbh
I absolutely agree. My nephews went to pre-K in Connecticut, and the opportunities available to them absolutely blew my mind. I genuinely believe that there was a measurable dip in their academic progress when my sibling moved back to Texas.
From the metrics side of things, I work with one of the larger districts in Texas, build a lot of reports for the district, and work very closely with the district directors of communication and other leadership. From this perspective, I can tell you that there are a lot of potentially messy scenarios that were addressed before the public ever heard about them. But after these cell phone laws, the amount of resources that went into “crisis response” have plummeted, and moved instead into marketing. Primarily because it’s harder to report and verify incidents without concrete evidence.
Part of these new cell phone laws, and what got a lot of buy-in from districts, was that kids were recording fights in the bathrooms, and that preventing kids from recording the fights would remove the incentive to fight because there wouldn’t be video to upload to social media. But, we haven’t seen a decrease in the number of kids getting written up for fighting; we’ve only had a decrease of community outcry, because they don’t see the fights anymore.
I argue that these cell phone laws were never intended to modify the quality of education or increase the safety of the students, but that they were always intended to merely take away the kids’ ability to verifiably report incidents, or expose issues to the public. Outta sight, outta mind, right? If this were really about getting students to disconnect while they were in school, we wouldn’t give every kid a Chromebook, on which they can look up ridiculous shit, send stupid messages, and leverage LLMs to do all their work for them.
I don’t think that the communities in Texas nor in Connecticut support these laws with the intent to silence their children, and to have blinders put on them. And even if the educational boards and lawmakers in Connecticut aren’t as malicious as the ones here in Texas, they’ll still unintentionally muzzle the students as a side effect.
I lived in Dallas for 3 years while I was doing a postdoctoral fellowship. Kids in Dallas were going to class in trailers. I was also moonlighting doing curriculum design for TX state testing. I would have to grade sample questions answered by students, and like 90% of the responses I got from high schoolers indicated they were barely literate. (FWIW my background is in neuroscience/cognition, not education, and I was developing science test questions for standardized tests.) I opted not to have my family move down to Dallas during the fellowship after seeing how bad education was there.
There are lots of areas like that throughout Texas, unfortunately. In a disappointing number of the campuses in San Antonio, some of the lowest performing schools are the only place where many students get to eat, get new clothes that fit, enjoy HVAC, and not get assaulted by family or neighbors. Many of those schools have unofficial metrics that they prioritize: were the kids safe, did they eat, did they talk to someone if they needed help? What is considered a monumental success in those schools is if the teacher says something that low-performing students find engaging enough to write down.
These are the schools that the state is shutting down. Many of the students are left in a lurch without a safe way to get to their new school. These are generally in areas with high minority representation. It’s almost like Texas’s goal is to fail specific groups of kids.
I read all this, and I can only think about my time in school pre cell phone.
I think about how today, there are in house couselling service centers in nearly every school in the state, staffed by mandated reporters. My school counselor is the reason my abuser went to jail, she helped me.
I dont believe they are taking away thier voice. We all have that. I teach my kid to use his, he’s not muzzled.
We can disagree, we do, and that is okay. I just think the positives outweigh the negatives. Phones were banned in High school when I went (grad. '06) and theyve been banned at my sons school already for years.
The state is just aligning with what most districts have already done here. I appreciate you saying you dont think lawmakers intend to harm children (but they are). least we agree half way?
Then why did you comment lmao
That article is about CT, not texas, why did you comment?
I commented to ask why you posted a comment that added nothing to the conversation. The first comment you replied to made a valid comparison to where the laws in question have already been implemented. Instead of engaging with that productively, you rudely dismissed it out of hand.
ok
i suspected it as much. teens have been recording inappropiate behaviour by school admistrations. any statutory rape, relationship they dont want that to hit neews. before cellphones, i caught 1-2 professors/instructers using outdated or misinformed facts in bio. this probably where its good to fact check
Fuck that. If you can’t stop schools from getting shot up, banning phones is the wrong move.
Phone use can be “banned” while allowing them to have phones on their person for emergencies.
Just banning them being out.
That’s already school policy in every school, and has been for literally decades now.
You don’t need a law for that.
STOP ARGUING. DO AS I SAY.
NO, YOU CAN’T HAVE A PROTECTIVE BALLROOM!!Exactly, people are at gunpoint, and yet this post is filled with slippery-slope propaganda. Its classic Lemmy, too unrestrained to realise discrimination applies everywhere.
Hot take but phone ban is schools is bad. We ought to teach kids how to use the phones properly as clearly personal computers are never going away and are fundamental part of our existence.
I know it’s hard, I know that teachers will struggle but it’s clearly an important investment as we’re never going back to a pre personal computer world. It might change shape from a phone to a watch or something but it’s never going away.
Really a non sequitur. you could have one course “healthy use of new technology” and ban it for the rest of the school day for distraction-free learning.
You could but you could also train real world practice. Example of this I really like is Japans school cleaning structures where kids learn and practice cleaning and taking care of their surroundings - because we all will need environment maintenance skills forever (or until personal robots).
I know it’s not a exact comparison but developing crucial skills and more importantly practicing them is what peak education looks like.
For phone example this would be developing and enforcing phone culture so it caries on out of school. Kids can ignore a single class but a culture shaped within the school will stay with them forever.
I’m always confused by this as “back in my day” teachers would just take our devices away if they were chasing distractions.
Then again that was back in the 2000s before smart phones and wifi everywhere.
Young people are kinda cooked I guess. Between nic vapes and brainrot they are in for a rough time.
Same, we had texting and snake, but if the teacher saw you doing either (aside from maybe shop class) they would confiscate it til the end of class.
Young people are kinda cooked I guess.
Always have been.
True that, before though I’d say it was a low flame, now it’s like medium high, the brainrot is much worse now than ever. If you go into the tech without any guidance you’re just fucked.
Really shouldn’t be a ban. Just have teachers do what they always do take away the distraction and return it at end of class.
The second a fucking cell phone ban in schools hit at a legal level. Its just going to fucking evolve into regulations and bans around cell phone use for us plebians at work. Which will then be used to punish and attack people.
Bans for kids rarely stay that way.
Alot of company’s have cell phone rules btw, my mom works in a factory, they can’t use their devices other than during breaks. They can write you up and fire you as long as there’s written rules and shit.
Yeah, not sure what the bill does when phones are already banned in schools by teachers? (I’m a headline reader so maybe i missed the reasoning)
Young people are either cooked OR the easy access to vast knowledge could help them out. So maybe all we will see is the IQ distribution become much weirder (only people on far sides of the graph, nothing in the middle).
Damn I make good theories.
The problem is just like any generation there’s the kids who will take advantage of the resources available to them to better themselves, and then there’s the kids that just absorb the brain rot and end up just cooked.
It was fine when they could be contained in factories and kept occupied like the drones they were turned into. Now the drones just wander around causing trouble.
I could see this making sense if the American education system wasn’t already broken beyond repair. Otherwise it doesn’t improve education. Simply gives more control to corrupt schools.
In my country a similar cellphone ban in schools has been implemented. Except in our schools kids actually learn quite a lot. It’s far from perfect, but far from terrible too. It may or may not have a noticeable impact on students’ performance. That remains to be seen, since it was implemented fairly recently. Perhaps scores from this year will indicate either an increase or a decrease.
Though of course, politicians are unlikely to care and even if it ultimately leads to a decline, they won’t cancel it.
don’t forget - schools are there to make moldable employees. not solid adult humans. banning cell phones seems to align with the working industry’s rules, too.
If someone can’t have their mobile device on hand because of stupid employer rules then they need to find a new job.
I get that you don’t want your team distracted by mobile phone use during work hours, but saying you can’t have one is idiotic. Fuck those employers.
OTOH kids need to learn that putting the device away to focus is a thing, if they can’t figure it out on their own I’m not against removing the opportunity while they mature.
needing to find a new job and finding one are two different things.
Even for aircraft pilots?
Commercial pilots are explicitly trusted to fly expensive and dangerous vehicles, sometimes with hundreds of passengers, over populated areas. They are trained and licensed professionals. If we can’t trust those folks to have a mobile device with them but to make good choices about whether/when to use it in the course of their job, then they shouldn’t be flying anyway.
As a survivor of the education system, I can concur. I don’t want my kids to go through the same system I did.
As a thriver of my education system, I want our education levels back at its peak of the early 2000s.
Ive a son, currently in middleschool, in CT, and he is not worried about this at all.
we had early cellphones when I was in highschool, not everyone had one, and they were banned. Go to the librabry computer during your study hall if you really need your fix. Maybe get a book while youre in there.
They censor the internet on the school.computers. back.when I went they censored websites about non christian religion as “occult” I’m violation of the first amendment
Agreed - no cell phones in school, for anyone. If someone needs to contact me while I’m teaching they can go through our admin team!
Give em booze and ciggies then
Remember these laws are about censorship, not education quality
Is that Mia Khalifa?
is that a degenerate?
Takes one to know one
no it fucking doesn’t
It’s not about role modeling. It’s about learning and attention spans.
With that in mind, take them from the adults too lol. I know some adults who are chronically online
The adults already have a job. They’re fine.
The students can’t even read anymore because they’re dumb as rocks.
STFU old man. You don’t even know any young people.
Are you one of those dumb as rocks young people I mentioned earlier?
Put your phone away! Listen to your elders!
Put your phone away! Listen to your elders!
That’s enough reason to not listen you, the fact that you are old doesn’t make you smarter, wiser or more worthy of respect
lol some people are so dense that every joke goes over their head. I never claimed to be smarter.
I just claimed that the kids are dumb as rocks because they have cellphone brainrot thanks to their shit parents giving them phones and letting them have access to social media.
Tell me where I made a false statement.
OP is clearly joking.
No. I just don’t think everybody younger or older than me is dumb. Which is actually quite fucked.
So you’re the white knight of ageism? Congrats.
Same with adults. lol
Yeah, but explain that to the children, especially young ones.
I do teaching, and when I set rules about not using phones during class - I put mine to the pile too. You can present the most compelling argument ever, but there’s a much higher chance it’s gonna reach fifth graders if you actually practice what you preach, and show the example of self-discipline, otherwise it will feel dishonest or unfair to kids, because they’re kids.
There’s nothing new about children and adults being treated differently.
Their brains are literally not fully developed. Some facets of life they’re literally ill-equipped to handle and policies should reflect that.
Their brains are literally not fully developed
The brain doesn’t stop developing till your thirties, source. According to this argument 30 year olds should also be subjected to banning.
If you’re a teenager reading this, consider.
There are a few adults who are saying that teens should have unrestricted access to the internet.
Look and you’ll see that most of them are getting money from you being on the net.
There are a few adults who are saying that teens should have unrestricted access to the internet.
I am. It saved my life
Sure, we give the kids alcohol, let them drive, let them vote- wait we don’t!? What do you mean there’s always been these kinds of differences!?
Using these as an excuse for arbritary additional restrictions doesn’t make your arguement stronger, it makes those restrictions morally suspect. This arguement means we need clearer frameworks on what is and isn’t a reasonable restriction on account of age to avoid the drinking age being a justification for erosion of rights
I wonder if some of those critics are by an odd coincidence funded by phone related entities.
I suspect it would be more likely social media companies.
BTW a bit unrelated (unless it is social media companies behind it), in the comments I saw somebody against the ban mentioning school shootings and worrying about not having contact with their child. I think banning smart phones and allowing “dumb” ones would be a good compromise for that specific issue.
We used to not have cell phones, and we were fine! I hate this kind of argument that implies it’s required. It absolutely is not. Sure, it would be nice to know if your kid is alright, but it’s not going to change the outcome. Should we accept all the negatives just for this small niche benefit? That doesn’t seem smart.
I think smartphones have ruined parents as much as kids. They feel compelled to know exactly where their kid is at all time. They don’t get the freedom to explore and learn for themselves anymore. Sure, being able to communicate is great when it’s needed, but I think there’s so many negatives that have come with that. I guess the option of payphones are gone, so there really isn’t an alternative left.
In our case, the phones are allowed to be on their person just not allowed to be brought out of the pocket or whatever except in case of emergency. Even between classes and lunch.
Some classes institute a “phone cabinet” where students are expected to put their phones in the classroom during class.
So the phones are always at hand, but not actively messing with their lives.
It’s the same here as well. I don’t have an issue with it. If stuff starts popping off, I at least want my students to be able to tell their loved ones some last words before being gunned down.
What I don’t want is them being on a screen in my class. They struggle to think without being told something by AI or whatever.
“Mister, can I search up what a dog looks like?” Bro you live in the city, you’ve seen dogs.
I’m sorry, is there a massive problem of adult teachers and staff at school being constantly glued to and distracted by their phones such that it prevents them from teaching and doing what they are otherwise there to do?
No?
… Maybe the critics can ask ChatGPT what a false equivalence is.
We had early smart phones back I was in high school.
We also had this rule.
Its fine.
If its not fine, you have an addiction problem, and should seek help.
I’m sorry, is there a massive problem of adult teachers and staff at school being constantly glued to and distracted by their phones such that it prevents them from teaching and doing what they are otherwise there to do?
Um… while I wish it weren’t so, it does happen quite a bit, and should be taken more seriously than it is.
False “addiction” accusations are used to imply that the thing you want to control in people is a problem of lack of self control requiring external intervention
Oh I’m not implying, I’m directly stating it.
If you cannot go 24 hrs, 48 hrs, a week, without using a phone for anything other than making actual phone calls on it, you have a problem and need, at bare minimum, a hobby.
I’d suggest reading whole books.
There is so much literature on how massive (especially shortform) social media use destroys your ability to concentrate, lessens your attention span, causes addiction, and is intentionally designed to cause addiction.
Its literally come out in court, fairly recently.
If you can’t hit pause on this on your own, yeah, you need help.
At this point, I don’t know where that help is going to or should come from, but I know an addict when I see one.
Because I am one.
I’m addicted to nictoine, I start getting real pissy around the 24 hr cold turkey mark.
I certainly would count myself amongst those who would need actual help to actually quit.
Difference here being, my nicotine habit isn’t and wasn’t tolerated or accepted in public school, I did that shit to myself, a decade afterward, as a legally/socially self responsible adult.
I agree with you that adults having smart phones is a different problem than children having smart phones.
Here’s where you lose me. The critique isn’t that adults are distracted. The critique is that being a role model means modeling the same behavior and showing by doing. That is the argument I see disengenuously misrepresented in this comment section again and again. That is a separate argument from adults have a problem with using their phones at inappropriate times during the work day/adults are addicted to their phones.
I can also unilaterally state that smart phones are also addictive for adults and are also bad for our mental health and well being.
The fact is, adults absolutely do have problems with staying on task and avoiding their phones during the work day. I see this in the field I work in and in other fields. This is so prevalent there are whole industries where its common to see “no mobile devices allowed in vehicles” stickers and decals on work trucks.
Oh, well, most adults being paid to pefrom their role, their tasks and duties, at a job, most of them are essentially de facto capable of role modelling proper phone usage, otherwise they’d be fired.
You just don’t use it while you’re actively working, you know, actively engaged in the act of teaching a lesson, overseeing a lab day, etc.
If a teacher was constantly on their phone, while they’re supposed to be teaching, they’d get reported and reprimanded and eventually fired.
This isn’t disingenuous, to hold this assumption… this is how things have worked for a long time.
Yeah, yeah a construction or transport crew should also have restrictions on distracted driving or otherwise operating a multi ton vehicle, yes, same as a forklift operator.
They should be fired if they egregiously violate safety protocols.
Systems exist and have existed to do this.
The problem that is going on in schools is that a combination of over-exhausted and underpaid teachers, combined with incompetent/corrupt admins have just looked the other way on this for so long that its become a problem not only in schools, but also all the places those kids who went to those schools go after they’ve graduated.
The solution is not to equivocate, the solution is having higher standards.
And just to be clear: addictive behaviors and patterns start in adolescence, and then progress and worsen and broaden when they are not identified and addressed.
This is … very widely the consensus of all kinds of studies into all kinds of addiction.
So having teachers model proper usage of the useful but potentially very addictive device… is arguably the most important area of society to do this with.
If you want a society that isn’t constantly distracted by their rectangles… you should exemplify to them how to properly use the rectangles from a young age.
I took the headline to mean the critics of the law were saying they don’t want teachers to be allowed to have cell phones on the job. I wonder if a lot of the commenters here took it the exact opposite way (teachers and students should be allowed to have cell phones, rather than teachers and students should both be banned from having cell phones in schools).
I think that may be where the crisscross is.
There’s ample evidence that social media and smartphone addiction affects developing brains significantly worse than it affects fully-developed brains.
Banning cell phone use in school is a good thing.
Critics don’t want to hear that young people whose brains aren’t fully developed yet have poorer impulse control than adults…
But young people whose brains aren’t fully developed yet have poorer impulse control than adults.
We don’t want to lose our rights because of shoddy neuroscience being misinterpreted for political gain
On the “different rules for adults and students” thing… if the adults model responsible cell phone use, i.e. never in the classrooms or hallways during school hours, never “ducking out” to their car or the teachers’ lounge just for B.S. doom scrolling or un-necessary calls, IMO that would be much stronger than just banning phones on-prem for kids and adults alike.
The real key: you should control your cell phone, it should not control you - same thing as so many other addiction problems. And, there will be addicts who genuinely are incapable of controlling it, and cold turkey tee-total zero usage has been shown to be the most effective answer for them - just like alcoholism, not drinking is nothing to be ashamed of, having a problem and drinking anyway is much much worse.
It’s all made up to justify control
No, it isn’t.
Make friends with a few schoolteachers and listen to their stories.
My kid goes to school where they recently instituted this strategy.
It feels like I’ve seen a marked improvement in their social behaviors.
Between smartphones and the COVID years, this generation has had it rough for social development…
This take is giving: 🙈
“If we don’t see it, it’s not happening and yay we saved the kids!”
Maybe that’s an issue with social media and the other apps on children’s phones, and not the phones themselves. So maybe it requires a combination of regulation on social media, plus better awareness from parents, instead of a blanket ban on a technology tangentially related to the problem.
fully agree. Most CT schools already have banned cellphones, theyre just adopting it on a state level.
There’s ample evidence that drugs addiction affects developing brains significantly worse than it affects fully-developed brains.
Banning drugs use in school is a good thing.
Banning drugs use in school is a good thing.
You’re right. Nothing that isn’t perfect is worth doing.
I guess we should just wait to act until every student can’t focus on something for more than 30 seconds instead of 60. Definitely a better idea because, after all, just ignoring the problem always works.
Oh right cause the war on drugs totally worked. My point is that addressing the consequences won’t solve the problem, like those children’s won’t go home and be glued to their phones.
like those children’s won’t go home and be glued to their phones.
if they can put them down for 6 hours a day, that’s huge progress over saturating in it every waking hour.
It’s not about enforcing behavior. Not primarily. It’s about setting a precedent of what is important.
There’s a huge difference between “They didn’t let me drink underage but I did it anyway and became an alcoholic.” and “They explicitly let me drink and I became an alcoholic.”
The former AUTOMATICALLY comes with increased caution from even the people who break the rules. And more importantly, it completely removes the “I didn’t know” from the equation. Personal acceptance of the consequences of one’s actions is the first step to fixing it later, but with no rules, it’s easy to get bogged down in “Nobody stopped me. It’s THEIR fault.”
I’m not saying it’s a bad thing but it’s like keeping an eye on your alcoholic friend for 6 hours then just leaving and letting him help himself on the drinks cabinet. It shifts the blame from the problem to the victim. Yeah it’s a good start but these children are already addicted at very young ages. Also it’s not like this problem is only affecting kids, adults are affected as well.
We took away all their other options, then complain they’re always on their phones. It’s cruel
I understand your point.
And it’s absurd, as I illustrated.
