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“Capital has the ability to subsume all critiques into itself. Even those who would ‘critique’ capital end up ‘reinforcing’ it instead…”
very true detective
This is why talking about things like government services just wash over conservatives. I was talking about transit and a common reply I get is “it’s not even profitable!”. It’s intrinsically linked that if it doesn’t make money, it’s valueless… it doesn’t matter if people use it, or if people need it, if it breaks even, or even if it’s designed to run at a slight loss because it’s value is more important than profit. People have lost the ability to understand that profit is not always the goal.
The view that public transport is not profitable because it does not directly turn a profit also completely misses the bigger picture. Imagine in a city where public transport operates at a loss, but provides transportation to and from work for loads of people. Without public transport, they’d have to switch to something like cars, causing congestion, causing delays, causing loss of profit for the city as a whole. Not to mention less time spend with your family or your hobbies, causing unhappiness, decreasing people’s desire to work to the best of their abilities etc etc. I could probably go on quite a while listing things public transport provides that indirectly works in favor of capitalism.
Not to mention the expenses that cities waste on the consequences of cars, like crashes and infrastructure maintenance.
It’s because they’re convinced, through their own experience, there isn’t enough money to go around so we have to make more instead of use what we have wisely.
Aka send a plumber to the billionaires
if it breaks even, or even if it’s designed to run at a slight loss because it’s value is more important than profit.
If it breaks even it can sustain itself in a market economy (anything where revenue >= costs can). If it operates at a loss, then someone other than the user is having to pay for it, and that’s usually where you lose them (because generally the answer is that you’re expecting them to pay for it in part, usually through taxes).
This is also why they get so grumpy about things like welfare (especially the ones who are working class and barely getting by) - they actively dislike the idea that they should have to pay for their own food/shelter/etc and also help pay for your food/shelter/etc when things are tight and they’re destroying their work/life balance just to get by and life would be meaningfully easier for them if they weren’t paying as much in taxes (and they grossly overestimate how much tax money goes to SNAP/TANF/etc).
Oh I know that, and the last point is what I try to drive home. That things like transit and food benefits are a fraction of a percentage of their taxes. I did amtrak for someone and realized it was less than 2 dollars a year that the person paid for amtrak, but them talking about it sounded like it was sending them right to the poor house. The military, on the other hand…
I haven’t played it, but is this disco elesium?
yep
Certified Mark Fisher moment.
“Oh, you’re expecting capitalism to collapse into anarchy? Better BUY lots of food and antibiotics to stockpile for the collapse!”
Grinch smirk
don’t buy into the illusion that capitalism is so self-organizing and organic. it requires the direct protection and supervision of a nationwide military and a police force -multiple police forces actually - to protect capital.
I guess I tend to think that police, and power structures in general, are organic and will pop into existence spontaneously.
(I actually think power structures are going to be important to maintain a socialist society too, just not ones that serve the few at the cost of the many.)
you confuse capitalism in general with the concept of a capitalistic nation-state, history has proven over and over that people with almost infinite money will use that money to the buy violent means to not only protect their capital but also to enforce their rule. The purest form of capitalism was never invented or made-up by mankind, it acts as a force of nature like water finding the path of least resistance. The thing is, that in history there have always been multiple owners of wealth (in our times organised in nation-states) competing against each other for power and resources. Because of that it might not seem like this capital is self-organising, but there is definitely a ‘law’ that makes it so that the person with all the money wins. We should be happy that not all those with wealth (and power) persue wealth (and power) at all costs. In other words, thank god most people care about other things beside money (and power).
Not the greatest dude, but had a sick quote that sums up this post:
“The Capitalists will sell us the rope with which we will hang them” - Vladimir Lenin
To piggyback off your comment, a thread from Existential Comics:
I highly recommend reading this thread. If you want an intro Marxist-Leninist reading list, I made one you can check out here.
I also like “My death comes by a thousand cuts, and I paid for the knife” - Dopamine by The Arcadian Wild
“A film like Wall-E exemplifies what Robert Pfaller has called ‘interpassivity’: the film performs our anti-capitalism for us, allowing us to continue to consume with impunity. The role of capitalist ideology is not to make an explicit case for something in the way that propaganda does, but to conceal the fact that the operations of capital do not depend on any sort of subjectively assumed belief. It is impossible to conceive of fascism or Stalinism without propaganda - capitalism can proceed perfectly well, in some ways better, without anyone making a case for it.”
– Capitalist Realism, Mark Fisher
Drag doesn’t believe in money. What’s capital gonna do about that?
If a system needs constant growth to survive it will eventually collapse.
Finally YOLO makes sense. Yes, capitalism indeed only lives once. It will have its lifetime, and then it will collapse and be done with. It will not come back, it will not be reborn.
So long as we stick with our distinctions of “Mine” and “Thine”, we will fall into a different sort of capitalism later down the road. In order to keep it away we need to stop looking at wealth as a virtue, but as something to give away.
You’re free to give away your wealth to me, if that’s what you mean.
Well, things would exist whether you’re in a capitalist economic system or not. People would make music and label their genre. People would write books and want to sell them. The real difference is who gets the profits.
It’s also how driven the profits are. All the choices on the way, are they directed for maximum profit or for good. And many things that are made didn’t need to be made, and wouldn’t if people didn’t care to buy them. The effort instead could have gone into good things.
Sure, sort of. Commodity production, ie the production of goods purely in order to sell and make a profit, likely won’t last forever, especially as the rate of profit trends towards 0.
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We can clearly observe the shift from genuine productivity to increasingly financialized Capital, which is an inherently unsustainable model.
You say that likes it’s a bug, not a feature.
I say it like it’s a symptom of the unsustainability of it all.
I mean without capitalism they wouldn’t have the concept of selling, so probably not.
I love how you take the definition of relationship to labour, and make it about market places that have existed long before capitalism has.
See how in the US we wait to potty train until 3,4,5 years old, while most other countries potty train earlier. Gotta sell those pull-ups!
What? No we don’t.
Who does that? Most kids are potty trained by 3
Most, but the age has been steadily raising since the introduction of disposable diapers.
Many other countries have their kids potty trained by six months, as we used to.
i see 18 months, not 3 years.
6 months is absurd. Do you have children?
0% at 4 years; so I’m curious where “3,4,5” came from.
His claim was about the age at which potty training was successfully completed. Your chart is about the age at which potty training started. They’re not comparable unless you provide some additional data about how long the training takes.
4 & 5 from anecdotal data - friends/relatives in day care. Those are outliers but they do fit the trend.
Around 6 months is extremely common in places which use “elimination communication.” The article I linked described this.
I don’t have children but consider myself both an academic and personal stakeholder - ie, I’ve changed a fair amount of diapers and I have taught parents how to parent to reasonable success.
I personally was potty trained at 4 - as in, I have episodic memory of getting Pokémon stickers as a reward for shitting.
There’s been severe regression related to COVID too. The school district I worked at had to send out reminders to parents that potty training was a pre-requisite for preschool - and many parents put it off until the need to send the kid to school forces the issue.
The Black Mirror episode “Fifteen Million Merits” makes this point in a (typically) very chilling way.
Imagine watching that episode then going to a desk/office/cubicle job 5 days a week without going insane. Must take a shit ton of cognitive dissonance and shamelessness to voluntarily work for capitalists.
This ties into the notion of interpassivity. This is when a piece of media perform an action for you (think interactivity, but exactly the opposite). An example is the laugh track on sitcoms. Another is the series or film performing your environmental or anti-capital activism for you. Frequently the bad guy is some big polluting corp, or some evil rich guy who wants to bulldoze the community center to put his Luxury Resort there. You watch the movie, feel all rebellious and sympathetic with the main characters, and go home feeling like you’ve done something, when in fact all you’ve done is feed Disney some more money. See also movies like triangle of sadness and the glass onion or whatever.
Mark Fischer’s capitalist realism explores this and similar ideas in a much more comprehensive and eloquent manner than I ever could. Give it a read, it’s quite short!
Thanks, I’ve been trying to remember this term and where I saw this concept for like 2 weeks!
Also, a related concept is recuperation:
The process by which ideas and actions deemed ‘radical’ or oppositional become commodified or absorbed into mainstream society and culture.
Think of the sterile critique of capitalism from the Fallout series (produced by Amazon).
When you commodify all the people’s wants and needs, you commodify the people.
If we are being technical, people were already commodified with the origin of Capitalism. Capitalism requires Labor-Power to be bought and sold as a commodity on the open market, that’s where surplus value extraction comes from.
What are we to them capitalists but (wage) slaves?
Or, to look at it the other way round:
When you commodify people, you will commodify all their wants and needs.
“But capitalism is so efficient at growing!”
Yeah, but now capitalism has grown out of control:
Capitalism is the most efficient way to push wealth and power to the top
Create a problem then sell the solution. Simple as
Sell the revolution.
How much would people pay for communism, how much for other forms of government?
