Edit to add my opinion so I’m not just replying “I agree” to 90% of comments. I think it should be legal, properly regulated, taxed and viewed as a profession. I haven’t personally engaged in it but I have no moral objection to it. I do hate the common sentiment that it was the individual’s “only option” though.
Absolutely should be legal and taxed, with rules and regulations in place to protect clients and workers.
I pretty much do have moral objections to it, its fundamentally gross to me, but its not going to stop and id rather these prostitutes work in a safe place and pay their taxes like the rest of us than get their passports taken by a guy named The Scorpion with a spider Web tattooed on his neck.
Based ❤️ Great take IMO
Should’ve called himself the Spidion
Sex work is just work, as long as it is all between consenting adults.
For sure. Anything can be abused
If the individual selling their services is doing so freely and isn’t being exploited in any sort of way then I don’t have a problem with it.
We never used it but I did look into it when we lived in Nevada for a friend who had been celibate for over a decade at that point. Nice dude, but extremely quiet and just has zero confidence/game.
I loved that the ladies were independent contractors who set their OWN rates, and they advertised what THEY were comfortable doing/ their explicit “no-go” list. There was also a strict consent banner on the site I used that said any of the ladies could kick anyone out at any time and there were panic buttons in the rooms.
Never actually did end up contacting them because we ended up being too poor at the time. Wasn’t mad though, those ladies were setting prices that they deemed fair for their bodies and I have mad respect for that. Whether people agree with prostitution as a concept or not, its not going away and its referred to as the “world’s oldest occupation” for a reason. The best thing to do is protect the people who are choosing to engage in it/ensure they’re getting paid extremely well for their time.
Even in countries were it is legal and has some kind of regulation, it still has exploitative character. Not for all but for many. And I think forced labor, of different degrees, is more common then you think.
Even when regulated and legal, we need to think about the careers after sex work. Can those people freely transfer into a new position without discrimination?
And since there is discrimination, worker rights, and often women and gay rights, are neglected.
To establish a safe working space for sex workers it is not enough to regulate and make it legal. You need to actively support each group individually and make it clear, that as for every other form of employment you have rights and someone else is actively fighting for it. It is not enough to tell people they have rights and they have to fight all by themselves. Especially when we have established that human trafficking, exploitation, femizide, and so much more are common.
So I think the answer should not be: just make it legal and write regulation. It should be: what actually is a safe working space for all, no matter if selfemployed or working in a brothel.
As long as all parties involved are consenting adults it’s none of my business what they are up to. Except that prostitution should be legalized in a way in which they get equal rights and protections to other professions. The only reason it’s illegal in many countries in the first place is likely based on religious Puritanism, which I do not think laws should ever be based on.
Even Calvinists in the Netherlands legalised prostitution.
suspect it’s not in spite of their faith, but… in recognition of their humanity and lack of hypocrisy when it comes to humans.
unlike other places where they’ll decry prostitution then rape the alterboys.
Wasn’t a core philosophy of Calvinists basically “god loves capitalism” (before the word was really established)?
this is a fascinating question I don’t have time to delve deeper into atm but a little googling:
“Calvin increasingly conceived of a state where the rulers were limited in order to ensure protection of religion.”
“Calvin argued for moderation in business ethics. Lending and profit-making should be permitted only insofar as they were useful, never simply to build personal wealth.”
but Calvin himself is entwined with capitalism
https://daily.jstor.org/john-calvin-religious-reformer-influenced-capitalism/
“Calvin’s theological beliefs, based upon his study of the Bible, captured adherents from around the Christian world as Geneva became a center of Protestant thought. He became known as a proponent of predestination, the belief that God’s rewards for humans have already been selected. It was later frequently invoked by wealthy Christians to justify their opulence as part of God’s plan that should not be disturbed by revolutions or high taxes. But Bouwsma argues that is a misinterpretation of what is a subtle theological doctrine about God’s mercy for believers.”
I suspect this is more capitalists embracing calvinism because the think it fits their desires but like most of religion, it’s people using a higher power to justify their wealth lol.
The only thing more certain to exist till the end of time than prostitution is people complaining about it. I like it because it makes something explicit that is implicit in so many apparently non transactional relationships. There are so many people who say prostitution should be banned, who are also in relationships/marriages where they expect sex for shelter, food, safety or whatever. Prostitution makes the transaction clear. People point to the exploitative nature of it, but then reveal their real agenda by also rejecting the idea of making it safer for the people selling access to their bodies. The whole thing is a massively hypocritical pile of double standards. Mix into that cultures with backwards patriarchal religious doctrines and that’s where you get the really angry people who talk about dishonor and stoning and all that jazz. Prostitution has been around since there were people and will always be around. When the puritans are in charge it just hides for a bit. This has been my TED talk, thanks lol
“Kyle, every boy pays for kisses. Do you know what I am saying? If you got a girl and she kisses you, sooner or later you’re paying for it. You gotta take her out to lunch, take her to a movie, and then spend time listening to all her stupid problems. Look, look at Stan right there. He’s got to sit there and listen to all her stupid motherf___ing problems 'cause she kisses him. If you ask me, that’s a lot more than the $5 my company charges.”
Regulated with provisions for safety. I’m all for the idea it should be in a specific license location, like love hotels or massage parlors or something like that. No going to someones house or a different hotel.
And unionized, and the employer pays for (without touching employee pay):
- PPE (including gloves, dental dams, and male and female condoms, which are mandatory for any and all physical contact that includes genitals, mucous membranes, feet, or non-intact skin).
- regular STD testing
- vaccinations
- optional pharmacologic prophylaxis
- building security
- both bedside and wearable panic alarms
- identity monitoring and protection / assistance removing their personal information from publicly accessible records.
Every room should be required to have a poster listing employee rights.
Aside from pricing differently for specific services (handjob vs blowjob etc) tipping is illegal.
No employee (particularly owners or supervisors) are allowed to receive service at their own location or any owned by a same parent company.
The owner and any shift supervisors are required to take a class on these regulations and sit for and pass a licensure exam.
Independent workers can receive a special, less restrictive license (that includes basic sex ed but mostly focuses on informing them of their rights and that independent means independent not “your boss just doesn’t want to get a license” and keeping people with intellectual disabilities or low educational level from being misinformed of their rights as a sex worker).
They worker will never face charges for not having a license but their boss or any John (Jane?) / client who can’t prove the sex worker or company was licensed (or that they were significantly or intentionally misled) can.
Much of what you said I agree with, but let me say that an independent license with less restrictions will be way more favorable and harder to secure than a location license. An independent license should not remove regulations, but remove security. Being licensed through a house should guarantee the availability of condoms and such, security personnel, testing, and so on. An independent license should require std testing regularly, but also means a John/Jane has to sign a waiver that they understand this is an independent.
I also would like to state that a house should never be run like strip clubs are where the strippers are independent contractors who have to pay the club. Workers should be employees just like ia regular job. Just a license.
Another point should be that a worker needs to be responsible for their own license renewal. The license for renewal (on time) should be free if you are in a house, and tied to the company that owns the house. If a worker gets a better offer at another company, a new license is required, but not if it’s a transfer of locations within a company.
And in the point of the company, there should be limitations on how many houses they can own, and how many workers in each house. Maybe that can be at a local level, like I can’t have a house called Billy’s House of Poon right across the street from another place I own called Madam Sapphire Day Spa. Zoning laws. I live in an area that saw an explosion of dispensaries after weed went legal, and now most of them are all owned by corporations that have no problem opening new shops in the same market. Avoid that.
I could go on, build out a framework for all the legal stuff, but I’ll keep it simple.
And honestly a lot of these would probably need to be tested top see what works best, but the core point is that in an ideal world there would be an ongoing effort to make sure the worker is given as much power over the situation as possible.
So long as it’s regulated and all parties are safe and consenting then it’s none of my business. It’s not something i’d be interested in however. To each their own.
Many complaints against prostitution also apply to trading labor for money/shelter in general. People just have a stronger emotional response.
Emotional responses are rarely a good foundation for policy.
Prostitution should be legal with safety regulations. All labor should have protections, unions, and such, to protect them from being abused by the wealthy.
Some specific things would probably remain illegal or disallowed, in the same sense that you’re not allowed to work construction without safety gear. People can wear condoms as easily as hard hats and hi-viz vests.
As a dude, i sucked a dick for big money to some rich old guy. With inflation, over 900 dollars for like nothing. So im biased
I think it needs to be legalized world wide to give it an opportunity to be regulated. If its already happening might as well capitalism the industry. Its going to happen either way, or the world will continue to have deep state sex clubs.
how do i do this that sounds awesome
As long as the industry has regulations that help keep the prostitutes safe ( generic things like STD testing and time off to clear that all up, ways to deal with rowdy, rough customers, etcetera ) In have zero problem as long as the workers are consenting and at least in their mid to late 20s to keep the creepiest of people out.
If you buy a hooker you are a pathetic fucking loser and worthless piece of shit. I wouldn’t piss on you if you were on fire.
That’s a pretty strong stance damn
I don’t have a problem with prostitution, I have a problem when socioeconomic conditions lead people to feeling like they have to sell their bodies to survive. If prostitution is completely voluntary, then it’s fine.
I have friends and love ones who have done survival sex work, there is nothing wrong doing sex work and I’m happy to fight people who say othrrwise
Considering “survival sex work” as something positive is quite strange.
I guess a worker under capitalism, all work is “survival work”.
Would nobody have to work under other forms of governmental organization?
*economic organization
But the idea is that, under capitalism you have to work in order to survive. Under a different system you work to benefit society, by your survival is otherwise assured.
Really depends on how it’s organized of course. Hard to say now since there is such a death grip on keeping capitalism for some reason.
Humans have a natural drive to work for the betterment of their community. Capitalism suppresses that drive by teaching them to sell their bodies and time. Give them a choice, and enough will choose to work that society can survive. Those who don’t want to work are often sick in some way and need society’s support. There’s no such thing as laziness.
I promise I’ve worked with horrifically lazy people, proud of their lack of work ethic and their ability so skirt tasks or dump them on others. I’m glad you have that much faith in the populace. In my experience, I think a large chunk of people would abuse a trust based system.
Have You ever wondered why they act that way? It may not just be as you assume, that they’re terrible people, but instead that all empathy and sense of community has been ground out of them by a system that punishes you for thinking of others.
Thats a pretty idealistic thought, not one realistically based though. You’re lucky to have never met a lazy person or been forced to pick up their slack.
Let’s normalize sweatshops then, exploitation is exploitation isn’t it?
People have to do what they have to do to survive. If anything, I admire the strength of the people who fight that hard for survival. But the fact that they have to do that to survive is fucked up.
I agree with this sentiment, but I’m a socialist. I don’t think anyone should find themselves coerced into work they don’t want. Ideally, everyone is fed and cared for, and those who are fulfilled by sex work can pursue it without exploitation or stigma, and those who enjoy the end product can enjoy it without fearing the situation that produced it
Positive isn’t necessarily what I was going for. Mixed reviews from the creator side, I’ll say, but there is nothing wrong with exchanging sex or sexual services for other goods or money. Its just as vulnerable to exploitation and abuse as other industries, but the major difference is that the people working in the industry are looked down on and abused socially and legally by third parties.
The stigma around sex work keeps sex workers in dangerous situations where it is difficult to manage their clients safely, and allows bad actors to abuse their power over them (ask any sex worker about police interactions), putting them in more danger than is already inherent to the industry. Whorephobia sucks, and it feels like people just don’t want things to be better with people who choose sex work, or who find no other avenues open to them.
Is it though? Because it sounds like you have to bang celebrities in the jungle …
One of the commenters said it was fundamentally gross to them…
It’s fundamentally depressing to me: intimacy’s … unending.
There’s no such thing as “a 1-night stand”, or “just a fuck” … you’ll never be unmixed with that someone…
& doing it as mere-transaction, or mere-physicality … ??
but apparently that view that most of a someone isn’t physical, & most of sex isn’t physical either, is deemed to be nonsense,
& pretending that merely-physical is “all that exists” is actually common …
so, my perspective is deemed lunacy or idiocy by this world.
But seeing women being used for mere-physical sensation by random strangers, as a purchased-transaction … that’s depressing…
I wish the world didn’t work that way.
I’m with all the people who want prostitution not-criminalized, who want it taxed & regulated, & I’d add that I want pimping criminalized: let women form cooperatives, or something, but nobody should coerce anybody into the biz of being used bodily.
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