The comments are quite saddening, and also quite worrying.
This isn’t to put women’s issues down, but men have problems too. There’s a reason why young men turn to these grifters and get manipulated by them.
Even above all of that, assuming you don’t agree, it’s a problem. We’re building up generations of uneducated and toxic men led by these role models. We can’t just shrug that off and say it’s not our issue, because at some point it is going to be our issue.
Woman here. (Sorry, don’t typically announce my gender, but relevant to the comment if someone else reads it.)
Tbh I wish the conversation were more positive. I ain’t no expert cuz I’m struggling with my own advice, but I’d recommend: Try to get a decent job, work on your mental health, take care of yourself, build friendships, try to get in a decent place financially, and maintain a healthy schedule, environment, and diet. Be the kind of person you’d want to date. And treat women like men for the most part. Most people I know in relationships met at work, school, church, dating apps, or through friends / common interests.
But the reason I’m not on the dating market myself is cuz I’m a mess of a human being who doesn’t want to be trapped in a codependent relationship. Dating doesn’t sound appealing at all when I have so many problems I need to work through first. I’ve seen what happens when people try to fix their problems with relationships; it usually results in more problems.
Thank you, sorry if I gave off the wrong impression. I actually said it as I was previously in a situation where I was, but I started focusing on myself (taking advice similar to yours) and it actually does help! Previously I was flat out scared of talking to women. I thought even looking at someone could be creepy/harassing.
Turns out just talking to someone and then asking if they’d like to go out for food or something in a respectful manner after a conversation isn’t creepy and actually seems to invoke a positive reaction from them sometimes? Who would have known!
This is a problem that I really feel like gets no attention.
With all the focus on women’s rights, young men feel neglected. And modern feminism does imply that men can’t really talk about issues because that comes from a place of privilege.
This isn’t the only time it happened. Male victims of sexual harassment and assault were pretty much entirely shut out of #MeToo.
So, young men feel marginalized and they will listen to whoever makes sense.
modern feminism does imply that men can’t really talk about issues?
not to be all “source?” but — source?
This statement feels full of selection bias. Let’s assume Angela Davis literally said this, does that mean Judith Butler agrees?
But I imagine it’s more that this was said by a semi-anonymous rage bait account on a social media platform.
That’s not to say such things aren’t hurtful - they are - but in the same way FirstnameBunchOfNumbers on Twitter says stupid shit all the time - eg all unions are all always bad and are literally communism - that doesn’t speak for the entirety of tradespeoples.
I’d much rather actually discuss the points raised. I was interested to discuss whether the person I was replying to (might be you - can’t tell on mobile) thought that what they said reflected all feminist thought, and whether that was current, new, or had always been there since Wollstonecraft etc
Do you really want to go into the difference between the “notallmen” epithet and the concept that because someone accuses a group of something does not mean that they are guilty of it nor does it mean that group is a monolith? The conversation seems fairly straightforward and doesn’t really need elaborating on. But I guess if you genuinely did have questions about the difference between “notallmen” and “accusing a group of something they didn’t do” I’d be willing to attempt to answer reasonable questions on the topic.
No, I am not the person you responded to, I just thought it was funny because all I could think of reading your comment was how many parallels it had to the “not all men” saying.
But to be more serious, I don’t think you can point to any individual saying men can’t discuss these topics, but there is a sentiment that has been felt for a long while. Listen to Bo Burnham’s Inside and he jokes about being a white guy trying to be supportive but not really being sure how without coming off as a “white savior.” A couple decades ago Ben Folds expressed frustration at not feeling allowed to express his personal problems to some degree in Rockin the Suburbs, and while that was more aimed at complaining from a place of privilege I think it captures a similar feeling the person you responded to expressed.
I think it’s difficult for a lot of men, especially younger ones, to express that kind of feeling without being (or feeling like they are being) rejected for having those feelings because they are the ones with the privilege. Or they may bottle up those feelings in an unhealthy manner out of guilt for potentially distracting from those with bigger issues. And those can open the door to them rejecting feminism in general so that they can express those feelings. People like Andrew Tate are able to take advantage of that.
I didn’t say men can’t discuss issues, (i wasnt even saying whether they should) I’m saying that for any sensible, reasonable definition of what “modern feminism” is (what does that even mean?), there is no correlation to “men can’t discuss these things,” and no prominent, published authors, scholars or journalists are saying such things - outside of tabloids, looking to score rage clicks.
I find it telling that the meme is about men following idiotic “influencers” and so many people here are like “I identify with that man on the bike but my problems are unrelated”
I wouldn’t say identify. Pretty sure many of us don’t follow Andrew Tate or influencers in general. We’re showing empathy for the general situation. Sorry it bothered you.
The comments are quite saddening, and also quite worrying.
This isn’t to put women’s issues down, but men have problems too. There’s a reason why young men turn to these grifters and get manipulated by them.
Even above all of that, assuming you don’t agree, it’s a problem. We’re building up generations of uneducated and toxic men led by these role models. We can’t just shrug that off and say it’s not our issue, because at some point it is going to be our issue.
Nobody is telling men what to actually do to be a lovable person. Just what not to do.
Woman here. (Sorry, don’t typically announce my gender, but relevant to the comment if someone else reads it.)
Tbh I wish the conversation were more positive. I ain’t no expert cuz I’m struggling with my own advice, but I’d recommend: Try to get a decent job, work on your mental health, take care of yourself, build friendships, try to get in a decent place financially, and maintain a healthy schedule, environment, and diet. Be the kind of person you’d want to date. And treat women like men for the most part. Most people I know in relationships met at work, school, church, dating apps, or through friends / common interests.
But the reason I’m not on the dating market myself is cuz I’m a mess of a human being who doesn’t want to be trapped in a codependent relationship. Dating doesn’t sound appealing at all when I have so many problems I need to work through first. I’ve seen what happens when people try to fix their problems with relationships; it usually results in more problems.
Best of luck. Sorry things are rough.
Thank you, sorry if I gave off the wrong impression. I actually said it as I was previously in a situation where I was, but I started focusing on myself (taking advice similar to yours) and it actually does help! Previously I was flat out scared of talking to women. I thought even looking at someone could be creepy/harassing.
Turns out just talking to someone and then asking if they’d like to go out for food or something in a respectful manner after a conversation isn’t creepy and actually seems to invoke a positive reaction from them sometimes? Who would have known!
Oh, glad to hear it!
Yes - they’re either idiots or have idiot parents.
The patriarchy hurts everyone.
This is a problem that I really feel like gets no attention.
With all the focus on women’s rights, young men feel neglected. And modern feminism does imply that men can’t really talk about issues because that comes from a place of privilege.
This isn’t the only time it happened. Male victims of sexual harassment and assault were pretty much entirely shut out of #MeToo.
So, young men feel marginalized and they will listen to whoever makes sense.
not to be all “source?” but — source?
This statement feels full of selection bias. Let’s assume Angela Davis literally said this, does that mean Judith Butler agrees?
But I imagine it’s more that this was said by a semi-anonymous rage bait account on a social media platform.
That’s not to say such things aren’t hurtful - they are - but in the same way FirstnameBunchOfNumbers on Twitter says stupid shit all the time - eg all unions are all always bad and are literally communism - that doesn’t speak for the entirety of tradespeoples.
I hate to use the phrase, but it’s right there. Are you saying that “not all feminists” are like that?
No.
I’d much rather actually discuss the points raised. I was interested to discuss whether the person I was replying to (might be you - can’t tell on mobile) thought that what they said reflected all feminist thought, and whether that was current, new, or had always been there since Wollstonecraft etc
Do you really want to go into the difference between the “notallmen” epithet and the concept that because someone accuses a group of something does not mean that they are guilty of it nor does it mean that group is a monolith? The conversation seems fairly straightforward and doesn’t really need elaborating on. But I guess if you genuinely did have questions about the difference between “notallmen” and “accusing a group of something they didn’t do” I’d be willing to attempt to answer reasonable questions on the topic.
No, I am not the person you responded to, I just thought it was funny because all I could think of reading your comment was how many parallels it had to the “not all men” saying.
But to be more serious, I don’t think you can point to any individual saying men can’t discuss these topics, but there is a sentiment that has been felt for a long while. Listen to Bo Burnham’s Inside and he jokes about being a white guy trying to be supportive but not really being sure how without coming off as a “white savior.” A couple decades ago Ben Folds expressed frustration at not feeling allowed to express his personal problems to some degree in Rockin the Suburbs, and while that was more aimed at complaining from a place of privilege I think it captures a similar feeling the person you responded to expressed.
I think it’s difficult for a lot of men, especially younger ones, to express that kind of feeling without being (or feeling like they are being) rejected for having those feelings because they are the ones with the privilege. Or they may bottle up those feelings in an unhealthy manner out of guilt for potentially distracting from those with bigger issues. And those can open the door to them rejecting feminism in general so that they can express those feelings. People like Andrew Tate are able to take advantage of that.
I didn’t say men can’t discuss issues, (i wasnt even saying whether they should) I’m saying that for any sensible, reasonable definition of what “modern feminism” is (what does that even mean?), there is no correlation to “men can’t discuss these things,” and no prominent, published authors, scholars or journalists are saying such things - outside of tabloids, looking to score rage clicks.
In my experience it’s the very opposite.
I find it telling that the meme is about men following idiotic “influencers” and so many people here are like “I identify with that man on the bike but my problems are unrelated”
I wouldn’t say identify. Pretty sure many of us don’t follow Andrew Tate or influencers in general. We’re showing empathy for the general situation. Sorry it bothered you.