You can legally pay a server $2.13 an hour in most states so long as what ever tips they make the rest of the day average to $7.25 an hour.

You seem to be either confused or unable to stay on topic. My point was that servers are paid by the hour which you confirm by stating the exact rates. What is your point? That they don’t get paid a lot? I’m aware, it’s why I don’t go to these places. Is this supposed to somehow guilt me into wanting to tip? It’s not my responsibility to subsidize wages, I don’t employ anyone so I don’t pay wages and I’m not going to pay indirect wages either. If a server doesn’t make enough money, that’s between them and their employer like in literally (and I mean literally, not figuratively) every other industry. It’s not different just because you carry plates. In fact, if you think carrying plates somehow makes the customer responsible for subsidizing wages, why not just cut out the middle man? Why don’t I come up to you on the street saying “hey, can you give me money, please? My employer doesn’t pay me enough and you’d be a huge asshole if you didn’t give me money.”? You would rightfully tell me to fuck off. Why is it different if I brought you food first? Because you have been duped into thinking it is by greedy restaurant owners who exploited the goodwill of customers and the labour of their staff. “Oh, it’s just the system, nothing we can do! We have to conform to the system because the owners don’t care!” is exactly what greedy restaurants owners are hoping you’ll say and you perpetuate this system by repeating it over and over.

I think they take advantage of their labour, just as people like yourself do.

Please explain how I’m taking advantage of anyone by going to a restaurant and paying for the food and service I receive. Then, please explain why I’m not taking advantage of anyone by going to McDonald’s and paying for the food and service I receive. Thirdly, please explain how I’m taking advantage of anyone by not having frequented a tipped restaurant in the last 20 year, which I already told you, twice. In your red-faced anger over me not holding the bag for restaurant owners you seem to forget what has already been discussed.

Act?

Yes, the obtuse act you’re putting on. You know servers are paid by the hour, yet ask questions that imply you don’t. You know what “turning something around on someone” means, yet you pretend you don’t understand what happened. Not like I didn’t explain that to you in my last comment which you read and understood. For some reason you’re still keeping up the act.

My claim is that if you don’t like tipping, don’t go to restaurants where servers rely on tips to make a living.

That’s not a claim, it’s a demand. And you’ve made it numerous times already and every time I told you that my point is “tipping also doesn’t stop tipping culture”. I already don’t go to restaurants where servers rely on tips to make a living. You know that and still you repeat your “claim”. Do you not understand what I’m telling you? I’ll spell it out for you: Yes, don’t go to restaurants underpaying their staff. Also, don’t pretend you want to stop tipping culture when you actively perpetuate it. I know you’re not stupid and understand perfectly well what I’m telling you. Please act accordingly.

The owner is responsible to pay for the labour they receive. Rather simple in concept, really.

Lol, it’s also very simple to see that the system we currently utilize is inadequate and is geared towards maximizing profits to the owner, and that is not the fault of the server who is just trying to make a living.

Yes, it’s not the servers’ fault, it’s the underpaying owners’ fault. We are in agreement. What is your point?

Although, I will concede that the servers are to blame a little bit as well. Time and time again when you ask servers whether or not they want to keep working in the current system, a majority says yes, they do because on a good day they can take home a lot of money. So, from my perspective it looks like there’s a scummy owner who pays too little, the server who calls me an asshole for not making up the difference while doing nothing at all to change anything and me who can either subsidize a shitty owner or get called an asshole. Somehow I don’t see how I’m the asshole in this situation just because the owner and the server decided so. If an employee is unhappy with their pay, they need to take it up with their employer instead of shifting the blame to someone who doesn’t employ them. Again, this is not unusual and it’s how it works in every single other industry. Every one of them, without exception. I see no reason to treat this industry any differently, do you?

I don’t tip because I’m fine with “picking up the owners tab”. I tip because I know that the only person who loses in the situation is the worker.

And you. You lose. Money. Money that should have come out of the employer’s pocket.

I’m not shifting the blame from the owner, they are of course exploiting the worker.

Great, now explain why I’m the asshole for not making up for what the owner withholds. That callcenter agent I talked to about my phone bill is in the exact same situation as the worker in your example. Why am I an asshole for not subsidizing a server but not an asshole for not subsidizing the callcenter agent? It smells a bit of a double standard to me. Please explain why you think it’s not.

I’m guessing you don’t tell the waiter you don’t believe in tipping before the service…?

This will come as a total surprise to you as I hid that fact very well until now: I haven’t frequented a tipped restaurant in 20 years. Do you tell the guy at McDonald’s how important it is to subsidize low wages out of your own pocket before the service? Why not?

Or …you could go to the many restaurants that don’t rely on tips to pay their workers. That is the only way to actually fight tipping culture, by rewarding your patronage to an owner who utilizes a labour system you believer in.

What a great idea! If only I could turn back the last 20 years and not go to tipped restaurants… Hey, wait a minute! I already did that! Sorry, now I made you look a little stupid for suggesting that. I really should have told you earlier that I haven’t frequented a tipped restaurant in 20 years.

Love your wording, by the way! “Restaurants that rely on tips to pay their workers” sounds so much better than “restaurants who systematically exploit their workers”. Restaurants don’t pay workers with tips. Customers do. After the already paid for the food and services they received.

I used to work as a chef while I worked my way through school, and I know how feast or famine things can be for people working up front. I’ve known people who couldn’t make rent because they had a bad day. I have basic empathy for my fellow workers.

In your basic empathy, did you ever request better conditions for you and the fellow workers you hold so dear? Or did you say nothing and perpetuate the system that treated you so cruelly? Who could watch close acquaintences unable to make rent and not open their mouth? Do you think your ex-co-workers will at least be grateful that you call people on the internet assholes for not thinking tipping stops tipping culture?

You said you haven’t participated in tipping culture for 20 years, based on your other shitty opinions, I figured that could mean you just haven’t tipped for 20 years.

No you didn’t. Let me refresh your memory:

Again, why not just support businesses that don’t rely on tipping to pay their staff?

Why didn’t I think of that and not do it for the last 20 years?

You’re trying to paint me something bad because you have no strategy of justifying calling other people assholes for thinking tipping perpetuates tipping culture. If someone doesn’t accept being called an asshole, you have no way of convincing them because you know the system is shit and the customer isn’t actually to blame for the owner’s refusal to pay what is due. So you’re making up shit so you can get some insults in. Why? I already do what you demand, I don’t go to tipped restaurants. What else do you want? You agree that tipping doesn’t stop tipping culture. Where’s the disconnect?

To be honest you just seem like a person incapable of empathy, like some sort of libertarian sleezball. Anyways, have fun being a miserable ass.

Remember that we agree that tipping culture is shit? You have no reason to insult me like that other than the ones you made up in your head. You agree that tipping doesn’t stop tipping culture - my entire point. Yet you talked yourself into such a rage that you think these insults are an appropriate response. You started right off the bat with accusing me of wasting people’s time and effort with no indication I ever did so or even think it’s a justified thing to do. I made a statement you agree with but you reject the truth in it so deeply that your only reaction is making wild accusations and throwing insults.

Please take this opportunity to reflect on your beliefs and how you treat people who actually agree with you but have a slightly different point of view.