With all the dismal news about America lately, my home, I’m starting to seriously look at where else to move.
Putting aside for now the difficulty of actually immigrating to some countries, I’m curious on the opinions of others (especially people living outside the U.S) on this.
What I’m looking for in a country is, I imagine, similar to many people. I’m trying to find somewhere that will exhibit:
- Low racism
- Low sexism
- Low LGBTQ-phobia
- Strong laws around food quality and safety
- Strong laws about environmental protection
- Strong laws against unethical corporate practices (monopoly, corruption, lobbying, etc)
- Strong laws for privacy
- Good treatment of mentally ill, homeless, and impoverished people
Those are the real important things. Of course the nice-to-haves are almost too obvious to be worth listing, low cost of living, strong art and cultural scene, nice environment, and so on.
My actual constraints that might really matter are that I only speak English (and maybe like A1-2 level German). It seems incredibly intimidating to try to find employment somewhere when I can hardly speak the language.
I know nowhere on Earth is perfect, just curious what people may have to suggest. I hope this question isn’t too selfish to ask here.
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Portugal, but they hate expats at this point because they got overrun by them in the last couple of years
Denmark seems to fit fairly well and there are some English-only jobs in Copenhagen. I have a lot of colleagues that don’t speak Danish.
Danish people rightly expect that immigrants should learn Danish within few years. Not like by law, but culturally.
I mean if you truly intend to stay in a country for many years, shouldn’t you learn the language? Also just for your own sake.
ITT: A lot of people doing the typical StackOverflow thing of asserting the question is bad and answering a different question instead.
No country’s that great but Canada’s doing aight.
No country’s that great but Canada’s doing aight.
You can buy a castle in France cheaper than dump apartments in Canada, apparently it’s a popular vlog on YouTube.
I said “aight” not good
Depends on where in Canada. Toronto? Vancouver? Montreal? Oy, insane real estate prices. Bumfuck, Alberta? Manitoba? Rural anywhere? Much cheaper.
And regardless of the price I could afford the utility and maintenance on a condo or apartment in a major city in Canada (if I could ever afford one) much more easily than on a castle in France. Not a great comparison.
Thanks for understanding, I do feel a bit hurt by some insinuations in some responses, but I understand why citizens of the world would feel unhappy with whiny Americans right now. I just hope it doesn’t progress into a hatred. Many of my fellow Americans are very good people, but unfortunately we are so disenfranchised politically - I think it’s hard to convey the extent of it. The state of things here isn’t a result of laziness and unwillingness to participate. But in fairness, I didn’t refine my original post deeply and it came off not quite right. I’m not looking to selfishly abandon ship or become a silent drain on another country. I would love to build community, but it’s certainly easier in some places than others, for a wide variety of reasons.
i’'m tired of people complaining about bigoted america and “how i want to move to liberal europe”. move that lazy ass and topple that idiot in the white house and the system that makes him possible (yes, that means ditching the democrat party too).
This would be great, but the hard truth is this will get you executed in the street, and this country is no longer worth dying for.
It may reach a boiling point eventually, but for now, given the choice, I think I’d prefer to move house than be murdered by my own military.
My kid would like to still have a dad. One who is, ideally, not in prison or dead.
I think this is a very valid question. Sometimes the grass really is greener on the other side.
I like it here in Germany. Laws and social safety are relatively strong. Oftentimes I see an article about some chemical common in food being a cancer risk, and then I research it and see that it is a US-centered article and that the EU already banned the chemical years ago.
Right wing populism is strongly on the rise here though. Racism and LGBTQ-phobia will strongly depend, with smaller villages and regions in East Germany being worse on average.
If you’re a top earner, you most likely won’t get the crazy high salaries here that you might expect from the US (even if accounted for cost of living, childcare etc).
Bureaucracy is annoying.
Rent can be very high depending on the region.
Job market strongly favors German speakers. I heard the Netherlands are more open in that regard. I think this will be your biggest hurdle.
Just noticed I used “strongly” three times in the post. Gonna need to find new adverbs.
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What I learned about Germany most recently is that it’s super-mega FOSS-prioritizing, which is awesome!
It’s not Super-Mega FOSS-prioritizing, but there are some efforts into that direction.
Oh, well, still: good enough!
also in my experience, while a lot of Germans are happy to chat with you in English in a social setting, business talk is usually expected to be held in German
My German teacher had a fairly profound impact on my life, I knew him for four years and he was absolutely enamored with everything about Germany. Like the German equivalent of a weeb. Some of that has transferred to me, I like basically every aspect of German culture I’m familiar with, especially the sense of humor. Since I already have some language familiarity, it’s always been near the top of my list, until recently with the AfD stuff giving me a bit of a fright. Although I saw they were recently classified as extremists, which was reassuring (thanks Lemmy for being such a good news source!)
It’s of course too bad to hear about the rural racism, especially since I’d prefer a rural place of living, but it seems those two things always go together to some extent.
I’m certainly going to enroll in classes for whatever language corresponds to my target country. I really want to be an exemplary citizen of anywhere I go. I feel it’s an honor to be accepted for a visa somewhere so I don’t want to take that lightly. My biggest concern is just that I won’t be that great with the target language despite my best efforts.
Thank you very much for your insights and kind words!
Don’t be discouraged by the language learning. Most places you can find intensive classes that meet several times a week. It’s also a matter of studying and absorbing as much comprehensible input as possible. Surround yourself with the language like you’re a baby learning everything about the world anew, and you’ll be amazed at how quick you pick things up. Our brains are literally made to learn language, after all :P
After been in 5 continents in 30+ countries and living in 6… the best for your requirements is Spain. Spain, even the opposing parties are unlikely to touch most of those protections since it has wide support among the population. Now, Spain is not panacea, it still has stigma against Gypsies, older people face job discrimination, etc.
Regarding privacy is OK, more due to inaction than protection but far better than most neighbors in the north.
On corruption… the ‘perception’ is that there is plenty but no more than I witnessed in countries like Germany, UK or USA… the difference is that corruption in Spain is highly exposed by rival parties/media while in the other countries it is no so sensationalized, that is why of the increase ‘perception’. By the way, Scandinavia, that I used to admire, above local governments, I don´t see it much better on corruption levels, specially since late 2000s.
Regarding foreigners, Spain has many offers in certain jobs, where English is a requirement, but not easy at all for more common jobs where the local language is what is mostly used, even if you dominate it well. Now, you will be surprised how many companies are moving jobs to Spain since it is easier to attract talent to Barcelona or Malaga than to Berlin or Grenoble… and they save in salaries.
Now, if you put less emphasis in sexism and LGBTQ, certain countries in Latin America like Mexico or Uruguay, or across the ocean others like Malaysia may be more appealing, it is not that they are expressively against those groups, it is just they demand a more quiet sexual expression from you.
Lastly, countries like Australia, New Zealand and the like have become so corrupt at high level and against privacy and freedom of expression in certain topics, should be disregarded if you emphasis on that. Ireland, is the only exception in the Anglo world, now, like Switzerland and Norway, they are floating in money o every one is okay while economies are good… the test comes, as always, come in challenging times. Till, then, consider those three too.
Spain is one of the main supporters of the infamous chatcontrol and wants to ban encryption. So, please tell me more about Spain and its stance on privacy …
Chat control, ban encryption? Where do you get that? I follow occasionally Spanish politics and never came across that. It may have been raised by some lone politician but highly unlikely to happen, unless other countries like France or Germany does it first, nor the people will follow with any mandate. The problem is if the main opposition party gets in power… they are more inclined to do that but even there I don´t see it spearheading any of that by themselves.
The Spanish government has a very strong opinion on this:
https://www.techradar.com/news/spain-seeks-to-ban-encryption-leaked-document-reveals
Spain’s vision appeared to be the most extreme, with the nation’s leaders apparently seeing the access to citizens’ data as “imperative” to allow authorities catching criminals in the virtual world.
Spain wasn’t just the strongest fan of the bill, but it also argued how EU-based providers should be ideally prevented from implementing E2E in the first place. Of a similar stance was Poland, suggesting that parents should have the power to decrypt children’s chats. Among other supporters for the Chat Control proposalare Cyprus, Hungary, Croatia, Slovenia and Romania.
There are many more news articles about this.
Again, that seems to be a personal vendetta of the minister Grande-Marlaska that keeps going secretly against the government policy (like the recently Israeli munition purchase that wast promptly canceled). No parliament debate on encryption or even public debate has been brought up at all. If it does, the minute it comes up, it would be turned down swiftly by the current coalition government. The President has no made any statement on banning encryption either, nor I think he would either. However, he did talk on identification on social media, but he will not spearhead that, nor it is doable to implement for now.
This is the official position of the Spanish government in the European Council. And it is unchanged for the last years. This is no “personal vendetta” or some secret agenda. Spain is again and again voting against encryption.
Maybe you should google that stuff.
I hear you, I am worry too. But again… this is a risk at the European level, not at the Spanish one; in Spain, it simply would not pass today. with a different government, of course, it can… Of all freedoms, this one concerns me the least, simply because it is mostly impossible to enforce for citizens.
Back to the original question though, of the 8 requirements, this one on privacy we could leave as a contentious point. But it is because law, it will affect all EU contenders ( and Switzerland will be pressured to oblige too soon after)
- Strong laws against unethical corporate practices (monopoly, corruption, lobbying, etc)
- Good treatment of mentally ill, homeless, and impoverished people
These exist almost nowhere in the world
Well, in France you have 4 free consultation to psy therapy per year, and government recently stop a project of drilling oil in Acquitaine because it was in a natural preservation area.
Far from being perfect but its something.
Yes indeed :( it’s a wishlist for sure, not feasible in it’s purest form.
Denmark is close I would like to say.
US ex pat here:
I think you will find more success in this if you find a place or two you want to live in and run TO something instead of AWAY from something. It’ll always be a bit of both, but this post reads more like (very understandably) “get me out of here” than “I want to be somewhere new”.
Being an ex pat has plenty of hard aspects of course. I think some of them are made quite a bit easier when you passionately dive into the culture and life in a new place. At least to me it would be impossible if my head was still in the US.
Of course you’re doing nothing wrong! Just some advice if it gets a bit more serious.
Like many in the thread: Canada, Australia/New Zealand, Scandinavia, Germany, UK (not that they’re doing fantastic right now), Netherlands would be my top choices with your criteria. Most large companies will be more likely to have English speaking as the working language and you’ll learn the local language (s) while living there. Best of luck!
Yeah, some of that is the impromptu nature of this post. I’ve thought about moving to other countries since high school. I’m very interested in a lot of cultural things that are just vastly more prevalent and thriving in Europe. Sometimes it feels like I was born in the wrong place. So there are definitely places I’d love to run to. I visited Switzerland and it felt like heaven on Earth compared to my state. I wanted to move there long before Trump’s first election. But it seems that particular country is near impossible to move to, plus Swiss German seems particularly tough.
I really like learning about other cultures and such, I’m afraid I may have come off entirely wrong in the brevity and laser-focus of my original post.
Very interesting that you say the working language would be English. That’s fantastic news. I definitely think I can get to a basic conversational level with languages pretty quickly, but reaching the technical professional level is my big fear. So that’s very encouraging to hear that it may not be so dire as that at least in the Netherlands. Thank you for taking the time to respond!
Yeah, certainly depends exactly where you go. A capital city and a rural town will feel extremely different on English speaking (and cultural/political views at that).
I think it’s quite possible to do though. Happy to chat or answer any specific questions you have, especially if they’re Scandinavia based.
It’s a tough choice to do something like you’re talking about but extremely fulfilling. I wouldn’t trade the decision for the world at this point. I wish you the best of luck!
Switzerland has many protections you want and the salaries are very good too. Now, I don´t consider life there as ideal thought. It is a bit depressing, so much beauty around but something is sad… reminds it of Paris… not to that extreme, but a bit like it. Of course it is a stable economy and you sense that peace of mind when there.
However it is not that democratic as they claim, for instance, twice the country voted for restriction on EU immigration (a silly thing since it greatly benefits the Alpine country and its society) but still the politicians keep dragging their feet and give excuses to disregard the resounding already decade old mandate (and at the benefit of the economy)… so wise yes, democratic not! Likewise, Switzerland has caved much to the powers of US and EU to several international topics so it is not the independent it used to be. Then it is the ethical aspect of collecting monies from spurious sources (Ireland lives of that too, but at least, the Celtics are more transparent of that)…
“At least to me it would be impossible if my head was still in the US”. I completely understand it… contributing with taxes to these policies from Washington DC may feel appalling… Now, the US has plenty of small and diverse type of communities some would find remarkable, like bubbles within the Empire… some can easily find peace there. Emigrating to another country is not recommended, nor feasible to everyone, but just moving within the US can be day and night different. Moving just a few miles away and and your lifestyle and friends can potentially change almost as much as moving abroad, and still close to your family/job.
Come to Canada, the weed is legal
Canada is certainly tempting if only on the basis that I would be closer to my family, and my family closer to me. And the recent election results were very relieving. Weed is legal here too though, haha.
the election results are much closer than you’d think. Popular vote had only a couple % lead. Everyone had to abandon voting for their preferred small party (e.g. greens, BQ, or NDP) to get liberals enough seats to beat the conservatives.
Yeah we’re far from perfect, but for better or worse we would be the smallest culture shock (it would kinda feel like moving to a new state).
Funny enough, you are looking at the countries with the most homogeneity and lesser levels of multiculturalism per capita. In this case the most white countries, like Iceland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Switzerland, Luxembourg, et al.
They all have what you are looking for. However, many of there are either fairly expensive, have less than optimal weather or have fairly strict laws, unless you are an EU member or want to ask for asylum, political or otherwise.Like other have mentioned, at a recent WEF meeting, at DAVOS earlier in the year, the President of Spain stated that he wanted to ban encryption, or have access to encrypted services… Why? For your protection, obviously. Do a search on Youtube and you will find the video. Keep in mind the presentation is fairly long. You may be able to find a clip of it.
The UK and Germany have gone down the drain when it comes to privacy laws and they are heading straight into Big Brother or 1984 territory. No joke. So those should be avoided.
Like other have said, Uruguay and Argentina are pretty good options albeit both Argentina and Chile are not doing too well economically for now. But I do have a friend who is moving to Argentina, albeit he is fluent in Spanish so for him it won’t be hard.
Other possible options are Australia but if you think owning a home is hard in the USA, then you have seen nothing yet in Australia. New Zealand is also a good option, too although like some other countries at the top of the list, moving there can be a tad difficult Re: Red tape, albeit it is a bit easier if you are part of the Common Wealth, which I assume you are not.
Correction: Not the Spanish President, but the Spanish Prime Minister. as my links below. My bad.
Not the Spanish President, but the Spanish Prime Minister
Officially, the Spanish Prime Minister is called the President of the Government
Fair. I thought so too, but I wanted to be as close to the article in question. As to avoid any misunderstandings.
Sweden
Lol.
For real, where do you get that the President of Spain wants to ban encryption?! That debate has been held in Germany, France and UK but not precisely in Spain… like nothing at all. In that talk President Sanchez just talked about the massive and pernicious powers social media have in the society (true) and that he supports the EU Digital Services Act (DSA), at highly misguided and bad thing, but not spearheaded by Spain. None of that is wanting to ban encryption… letś no mention almost impossible to enforce properly too. If digital freedom is your aim, options like Australia is a bit off, you are good until you touch sensitive things for the US.
Where did I get it? I literally said where, there is a Davos presentation he did. Didn’t I say that? I did not say that it was debate, it was something that he was pushing for in his speech. Find the video.
With that said, it is not like this is new. You are just unaware. Example:
https://www.wired.com/story/europe-break-encryption-leaked-document-csa-law/
"The source of the document declined to comment and requested anonymity because they were not authorized to share it.
“It is shocking to me to see Spain state outright that there should be legislation prohibiting EU-based service providers from implementing end-to-end encryption,” says Riana Pfefferkorn, a research scholar at Stanford University’s Internet Observatory in California who reviewed the document at WIRED’s request. “This document has many of the hallmarks of the eternal debate over encryption.”__**"
Also you are right, he also want so remove anonymity… for your protection, of course.
Thanks for that wired link. Was not aware of it. It is 2 years old but important still. Now, that is not from the president of Spain, but its minister Fernando Grande-Marlaska, a extremist and, I would say, a compromised guy that works more for foreign entities than Spain’s interest and should have been fired long ago. For instance, last week he signed a contract with a Israelś company to purchase munition… the outrage in the coalition government was such that Sanchez had to step in and canceled the already signed contract.
On wanting to stop anonymity, 100% with you, but hard to find any leader is not on board with that.
Yeah, I find this drive towards a 1984 dystopia concerning. Given that it comes equally from both, Right-wing and Left-wing governments. The UK is going insane and they lean right, and so is Germany and they lean very Left. Spain leans very left and look at what they are doing. Also, I sit corrected and it is not the president of Spain but the Prime Minister of Spain --which is worse-- as per my Telesur link regarding the WEF, people can still find the clip of his speech if they are interested.
I will update my previous post and correct myself, either way, he is a literal Socialist and he is the one that wants to eliminate online anonymity… For your protection, of course. ;-) LOL
Up here in Canada, the Liberal government passed amendments to 2 Laws during the pandemic, when they pushed for bogus Emergency Powers, just for a couple of days in which they sneaked these changes, that allows them to freeze people’s banks accounts on almost a whim, some people got their bank accounts frozen because they donated to a group that the Liberals did not like, despite not doing anything illegal. It was due to just wrong think.
It is insane but still most Canadians are not aware of these changes because the news media barely covered it. I happen to follow politics closely and read Bills and law for fun, so I know about them but I have yet to meet an average Canadian who is aware of this, unless they are into politics or study political science or something akin to it.
I mean, I have lived in 3rd world countries with better legal protections than what Canada is turning into under the Liberal party. I say that as someone who leans Left.
Ad someone who goes to Canada every two months in the last 15yrs, I had witnessed the regression not only in the liberties, but also mood of the people. No one would have guessed a decade ago how a country with so much potential and human capital would had become in this state! I would not only blame the Liberal party though… it is something bigger than them, same in the US… and most of the West.
As a Canadian I can tell you that politically everything wrong, or almost all wrong with the country is literally the Liberal Party’s fault. They have been in power for a decade, already.
All, or almost all of their policies have made the country worse. It is easy for idealogues out there to blame the conservatives but in reality the Libs pushed for all the things that broke the country.
From extreme immigration that increased crime, El Salvador is now safer than Toronto, to the price of housing, to making drugs more accessible via their Safe Supply program. That sounds good in make believe land but horrible in practice.
Which saved more “users’ lives” at the cost of increasing the number of overall drug addicts, everywhere. Same happened in Seattle and Cali, as well as in Portugal where this whole scheme was copied from.
You can tell by seeing the ratio increase of users and deaths in the provinces that pushed for this policy over the ones that didn’t.
Can’t even really blame the conservatives as the Libs and the NDP --which was Lefty but devolved to being Lib-Lite- created a collation as to bypass their vote in most cases. So they passed a lot of stuff easily and mostly on their own.
It is a mistake to not blame the Liberal party only because they have the word “Liberal” in their name. Trudeau alone was found guilty of 4 ethic violations, one including his family, so just straight up corruption. So, yes, we could blame the bad Covid handling and the NDP as well, if we want to nickpick. With the later now a shadow of its former self. The NDP leader sold out the party and the government, so he could be eligible for his fat government pension. He announced his retirement immediately after and lost his riding just after that. They got destroyed in the recent election, too.
Carney has already been got caught lying, a few times, saying one thing to English speakers and the 180° opposite to French speakers regarding infrastructure projects because he needed their votes and he just recycled a ton of the same people in government. There are other examples.
He ran as being an outsider when anyone with eyes knows that he is not. He is even the godfather of one of the kids of Freeland, the previous Deputy PM AND Finance Minister (who is now the Transportation Minister under him) who quit the job, the morning she was supposed to table their budget that was over $20 Billion over the number they had stated before, because she is a coward and was looking after her career first, along with 0 sense of real accountability. She quitting put us in a constitutional crisis and we went through not 1, not 2, not 3 but 4 Finance ministers in 14-16 hours, including her. Then she ran for the leader of the Liberal party before losing to Carney, but as stated she is in the new Cabinet anyway.
We literally applauded an ex-Nazi SS soldier in parliament because the Libs wanted PR points and come off as pro-Ukraine but did 0 vetting on the guy. This was supposed to be done by the office of the PM. They are that incompetent and threw another guy, the Speaker of the House under the bus and forced him to quit, as to save face. Fucking embarrassing.
Their biggest selling point was, “we are not Conservatives.” Which is funny as the Libs literally copied a bunch of Con campaign/platform promises, rebranded them, and sold them as theirs. I am not a conservative but holy shit the Libs are so incompetent. Not really positive about the new guy, either. Once you get past the new paint job, it is just more of the same. He became the Leader of the Libs by decree of the party and paid about $250,000 to run, as he was never elected by anyone in the public or held a riding. Which is a first in our system.
He just got inserted. That is not very Liberal nor democratic.
The loss of Liberties was all Liberal policy too. They fear monger people and then remove liberties for “our” protection, of course. It is sad to see the country go down this fast.
I see your pain. You know better, but from outside to someone that goes frequently to Canada, yes, the Canadian downfall happened in the last 10 years. But I also travel to other countries and no matter what parties rules, all had a similar fate… UK, Germany, Netherlands, France, Australia… That tells me one thing, or our democracies are an illusion and nothing changes with the major parties or so there is like a virus in the air that affected the West.
You should instead put energy into your environment and community to make positive changes in your area.
Yes, I’ve thought about this a lot and do make efforts to improve my environment. But it’s disheartening, the vast majority of people in my community are extreme Trump supporters. I know people who threw parties to celebrate the renaming of the Gulf of Mexico. It’s hard to know how to improve my community in light of that, and in fact it’s hard to even want to.
But I am open to suggestions, what do you think are some of the best things I could do to improve my area?
That’s most European countries. Pick one, learn its language and immigration laws, and off you go
The Netherlands, Germany and Scandinavia have all those things and people tend to speak English really well.
As for the ‘No racism’ part, skip the Netherlands. One of the current governing parties is openly racist and can even be considered fascist. Also, we have a huge housing crisis, so finding a place to live may be challenging.
European racism is casual compared to even everyday American racism, even considering the likes of AfD
Yes, I’ve had this suspicion awhile. Last year an ex-coworkerif mine was quoting the disproportionate crime rate among black people statistics at me and then leveled up into saying Africa is such a desolate place and so only unintelligent people would have stayed there in ancient times, thus meaning there’s a selective breeding for unintelligence in that continent. I tried to argue with him about the dubiousness of IQ measures in the first place, let alone IQ heritability, and the deep statistical flaws in the crime rate argument, which don’t disentangle race from poverty, but as soon as I tried to make these counterarguments he brushed me off as being “brainwashed” by “lies about equality”.
I don’t even know what to do about something like that other than just stop talking to the person. What’s terrifying is he’s otherwise pretty smart, totally fits in with respectable society. Not some stereotypical redneck racist type. I think about that a lot and wonder how many others like him are going totally undetected around me every day.
Yeah, racism in europe is largely stereotypes directed at whole groups that are rooted in truth but grossly overblown, eg “black people just want to commit crime”, “arabs want to install sharia”, “east asians want to eat your dog”, “indians want to outgrow the native population” and other nonsense.
If you ask the huge majority of the people who are saying these things if they interact with people in these groups, they’ll say “yes, but they’re some of the good ones” not realising it’s only a tiny fraction who aren’t, but also accepting that race doesn’t automatically make you anything.
Comparing that to the US where (from what I’m aware of) there’s both “I refuse to even speak to members of xyz race because they’re subhuman” and “xyz race needs all the help they can get because they have such a tough time” it seems so hard for individuals to just live a normal life in the US?
I agree. The difference is that we are not so polarized (yet, we are getting there) and it’s not systemically embedded in the police force (yet, depends where you look)
Thanks for this counterpoint, that’s exactly the sort of thing I think people need to see when thinking about moving (whether emigrating from America or anywhere else) - what’s the big problems for people there, what’s their equivalent of these problems. Would you mind telling me which party this is so I can do some more research on it?
The party is called the PVV. Their racism is mostly aimed at Muslims, but they’re not a big fan of most other groups of immigrants either. Highly educated expats with a work visa largely get a pass, though I think there are some plans to limit their benefits.
I wouldn’t rely on Germany to remain stable and democratic these days. The fascists are the strongest party and the new chancellor is an oligarchy stooge of the worst kind.
Things aren’t much better in The Netherlands. The PVV is part of the government now. The good news is that having to form a coalition with other parties, seems to have reigned in some of their worst tendencies. Also, their minister of immigration is a total nitwit that can’t get any sort of actual policy implemented. If they keep failing to make any kind of progress on this issue, hopefully they won’t do as well in the next election.
It certainly seems that way! Some of the ESL speakers I’ve met from Europe are more articulate than native speakers that I work with. What I most wonder about is the prevalence of English in the workplace. I think I’d feel guilty using English at work in country with its own different official language, unless it was really like, standard even before “the guy from America” joined the team, lol.
There are some large, internationally oriented companies where you can get by speaking only English. I’ve also seen more than one tech company hire programmers that don’t speak Dutch. So it depends on the industry.
If you want to get some perspectives from Americans living in the Netherlands, you could check out Itz Sky’s and Jordan Green’s channels on YouTube.
Fix your own damn country. You actually have power to fix it over there. The rest of the world doesn’t.
Telling the passengers of the Titanic to grab a bucket after it snapped in half is not as helpful as you might think.
No! What the fuck kind of defeatist analogy is this?
THEY are the captain of their ship, but it’s being hijacked. It’s up to them to regain control over it.
Bro just let’s his hands down saying “what do you want me to do?” Fucking fight! Organize protests. Go to town halls and yell at them. Run them the fuck out of building. Others have done it.
The French do it all the time. Are you saying you’re not as capable as those you call “cheese eating surrender monkeys”? You keep making fun of them, but if you don’t act, they’ll be making fun of you.
…the fuck are you talking about? The majority of US voters wanted this shitstorm. This isn’t like two people oppressing the country - the problem is that the majority of us land somewhere on the spectrum between stupid and evil, and that’s a MUCH larger problem than just Trump.
Protests in the US have lost their teeth ever since the civil rights movement. Nowadays we don’t have the Black Panthers standing by with rifles to enforce the efficacy of broader non-violent side of the movement; and so long as they remain nonviolent, they’ll continue to be ignored. We protest all the time - it doesn’t accomplish shit here.
The French do it all the time. Are you saying you’re not as capable as those you call “cheese eating surrender monkeys”? You keep making fun of them, but if you don’t act, they’ll be making fun of you.
Again, what the actual fuck are you talking about? I haven’t made fun of the French a single time. 100% we’re not as capable as the French - the French are absolute badasses who respond to oppression by literally making heads roll. That’s why protests there work - the ruling class knows what happens next if they ignore the protests. And cheese is fucking delicious. I’d love if we emulated the French - we should start with the guillotines and end with fondue.
That’s the thing… NOT the majority elected him. A lot of people abstained from voting because they didn’t like Kamala. The majority didn’t vote for Trump.
Besides, even those who voted for Trump have remorse.
As for the black panthers, you can still form local armed militias to protect protesters. This is a second amendment right. I’d love to see the republicans go against that.
Well, I specified the majority of voters for a reason. When a third of population looks at the possibility of someone as evil as Trump taking power, and are so unmoved by that possibility that they can’t even be bothered to so much as color in a quarter-inch rectangle in opposition to it, that’s a fucking problem.
Militias to protect protesters is one thing; militias to enforce the demands being made by the protesters is what we need.
Look at current events here: we’ve got the 50501 protests happening nationwide and frequently - nothing changes. There were protests constantly during Trump’s first go at raping the Constitution - nothing changed. There were protests against Biden and Harris over their support for the genocide on Gaza - nothing changed. This has been a recurring theme for the almost 4 decades I’ve been stuck in this fucking dumpster fire.
You know what did get shit done? Luigi put three bullets into a malicious healthcare CEO’s back, and we immediately saw some reform (nothing huge, but some). Teslas and Tesla dealerships started getting burned to the ground, and now (supposedly - hasn’t happened yet) Elon is backing down from his role as chief Nazi. The republicans carried out a literal insurrection; they now control the presidency, Congress, and the Judiciary. Any semblance of checks and balances, and they just arrest the judge.
Point being: good or bad, violence is the only thing that works here. We’ve dipped our toes into it, but we haven’t gone full guillotine, which is what desperately needs to happen. Protests aren’t going to accomplish shit until the ruling class has a healthy fear for what happens when the protesters’ demands are ignored.
Point being: good or bad, violence is the only thing that works here. We’ve dipped our toes into it, but we haven’t gone full guillotine, which is what desperately needs to happen. Protests aren’t going to accomplish shit until the ruling class has a healthy fear for what happens when the protesters’ demands are ignored.
You know what? I motherfuckin’ agree with you 1 000% on this.
Judging by your post history, it looks like I agree with you on nearly everything, except apparently when it comes to splitting hairs over how much faith we have in the average American to actually get up and get their hands dirty to take our country back.
…and honestly, I’m a little jealous of that optimism. The past decade has made me cynical as fuck. You’re right to call me out for defeatism. This all seems so fucking hopeless to me, but I really ought to keep that shit to myself - not like I’d be doing anyone a favor by ‘winning’ them over.
No words truer than this
No. Absolutely not. The ship ain’t sinking. It’s being hijacked.
I would certainly rather fix this one than leave, but it’s pretty dismal. There are already large protests, almost nobody is satisfied with how things are, yet nothing changes. Our elected officials don’t listen to us, even on the off chance that one I like gets elected in my area. The best I can hope for is that someone will run who will just keep things as bad as they are, nobody ever actually improves things. I’ve never had an opportunity to vote for a candidate that actually represents my interests. I live in one of the most far right places in the country.
I really would like to fix it here. But I am very unsure as to how. There’s lots of community togetherness types of opportunities, but unfortunately having friends with like minds does no good when anyone with power doesn’t listen. And now even protesting, no, even just showing up to a political event on “the wrong side” is terrifying because of the effectiveness of mass surveillance and the complete lack of oversight on our police. I am open to specific suggestions on how to fix it.
It’s important to consider trends and trajectories, while countries like Ireland and whatnot may appear to satisfy a lot of these, they are also struggling with the same decaying Capitalist system and are being dragged down by US decay as well. Countries like China that are improving rapidly might be more worth considering.
China would get a -100/10 for privacy though.
About the same score as any Western country. Privacy isn’t really respected anywhere unless you force it yourself, too much money in big data.
In China it’s illegal to be private though. Skynet, the surveillance system is always watching you when your in public. You have to use phones thay are regulated by the government and you can’t have access to websites thay aren’t whitlisted by the government unless you use a vpn which as far as I know is illegal in China.
Western countries have similar levels of surveilance and regulation. The firewall and VPN bit is true, but that’s not for privacy so much as it is the desire to build up their own internet that can’t be dominated by the US. They are very wary of how western countries used propaganda to destabilize the USSR with outlets like Radio Free Europe.
I agree.
