You have to admit he makes a very handsome woman

I’m not downplaying anything or suggesting we’d be going back to the current status quo in four years, and if you actually read what I wrote in a slightly less cynical way you’d understand that.

I’m telling you now that things will decline under trump and you will vote for the new status quo that will have been wrought about in four years instead of pushing for a platform that even expresses a desire to make things better, and you will fight against anyone telling you we should work together to achieve that end.

I’m not going around calling anybody anything, and I’m especially not denigrating their intelligence. We’re not allowed to question your candidates and you’re so convinced of your own righteousness that anyone who disagrees is a dipshit or a fascist that deserves everything bad coming to them. But sure, you guys are definitely morally superior to MAGA and totally different from them in every way.

Also, voting for democrats is not “taking action against the Republicans”, it’s taking action for Democrats, because a) that’s just the reality of how voting works, no matter how much you libs cry foul and doublethink yourselves into believing it’s not, and b) the Democrats are not taking action against the Republicans. If they were, they would have done something in the last 4 years to prevent the Republicans gaining ground or at the very least run a campaign that wasn’t objectively bad and ceded the framing on every issue to the Republicans, making themselves look incompetent.

This outcome works for them, the DNC, just as much as it does for Republicans. They don’t give a shit about winning elections and they don’t give a shit about you or trans people or minorities or any people who will actually suffer under Republican policy, no matter how strong of a hallucination you get from them being the only alternative to the Republicans you’re allowed to consider in our quote-unquote “democracy”.

Nah, this works for Republicans. Things will decline and Republicans will be voted out in 4 years, the Democrats will maintain the best case scenario of the status quo for the time, and then 4 years after that the Republicans will get voted back in, probably a Vance or Musk type. It’ll be a circus, the democrats will barely try and probably actively throw the election. You libs will all have false hope, refuse to see the campaign for what it is, and go right back to blaming the voters when the candidate of “this is all very good actually and should keep happening as it is currently, and fuck anyone who says otherwise” loses yet again.

It’s very clear what is happening and yet because you feel cornered, you refuse to get mad at anyone on your side who actually has the power to change things, and reject them for not doing so in order to make room for someone who will. You stand for nothing so you fall for anything. Well your “team” has been doing that long enough, and look where it got us. Perhaps you’re right and it’s too late now, but more of the same was never going to fix this.

Nothing that any of us could have done could ever counteract a bad (or good, this goes both ways) campaign on the national level. Sorry. Vote harder next time I guess.

Anything to avoid self reflection.

Well I already tried the first thing and he didn’t believe me.

That’s an interesting perspective though, I’ll have to think on that. Thanks!

I’ll be sure to let you know when I start taking advice from lemmy on my personal relationships.

He was using “everyone just wants to be right” as an excuse to shut down. His very weak rationalizations to not take a stance yet reject any advocacy for the humanity of palestinians were very transparent and I found it both disgusting and insulting. He would claim he didn’t know enough, to not know “what does Hamas even want”, but told me he’d have to see my sources on everything I tried to explain to him. Especially when I told him about Israel’s lies of sexual violence that occurred October 7th (which was his main talking point, “you don’t rape people”. Well, there’s not a shred of evidence that they did) and then threatened to mute our chat for sending these sources without reading or viewing them because they were “too long” or cited a tweet at some point, and I assume he did mute me but idk cause that’s where things ended.

I understand that antisemitism is rising. That is happening everywhere. You also have the AFD on the rise (which he denied). That can hardly be blamed on Palestinian activists. If anything, Israel is to blame for manufacturing the situation. Fascists co-opting the movement because they want to see both sides destroy each other is hardly any reason to continue funding Israel as they wage a genocidal war, nor is it one to shut down any democratic process on the matter. They are poisoning the discourse and you are playing right into it.

And no, I refuse to accept your framing that anything Iran does is automatically bad, antisemitic, or out of proportion to the situation. Israel is no more righteous in this than they are and is actively provoking a regional conflict with weapons that we are providing.

Thanks for this. I have a German friend that can’t talk about this without whining about how it’s upsetting and oh the jewish people in Germany are reminded of the holocaust and they’re afraid now and Hamas aren’t perfect victims and nobody is allowed to protest because protests are antisemitic so we just have to let Israel flatten Palestine and continue their apartheid with our tax dollars. And oh man I don’t really know anything about it but I still disagree with you and my perfect english is suddenly not good enough to explain my non position because everyone just wants to be right.

I stopped talking to that German friend, but I’d like to know how to get past that brick wall if we ever do talk again.

If you stop reading me and those objecting to genocide like adversaries instead of potential allies, and move past the monkey brain telling you to fear fear fear the unknown, you might find very little to disagree with in what we’re actually saying. You might find it in yourself at least to resist the urge to alienate voters that are paying attention and care enough to find such a legitimate objection, mobilize for protests, and organize a voting bloc large enough that it threatens the power of the democratic establishment (only if they do not make a good faith attempt to meet these voters’ demands, of course, which shows how little faith you have in the power of organizing, which calls into question your plan for after the election, but that’s besides my point)

I disagreed with third party and non-votes myself at first, but then I saw how people like you treated others simply for finding their voices and using them to stand up for justice. I saw that what you are saying does not line up with the realities of the democratic platform, that it didn’t 4 years ago either, and that the democrats aren’t really promising anything that I could use to argue with undecided voters. I asked myself how progress could ever happen if this is how I am compelled to treat those pushing for it, and I could not find an answer. I couldn’t beat them, so I joined them.

I realized you actually might not have it all figured out if your only means of recruiting these people to vote for the Democrats; again, people that care and argue with very reasonable logic; is to shout them down and silence them with deeply and nakedly flawed talking points. All while expending energy that you could be directing at someone with any power to change things and to capture that vote.

We’ve been through the same shit with climate change and countless other examples. The “invisible hand of the free market” is bullshit, you cannot make systemic change with individual action and no amount of shouting at people and following them around to brigade their posts will change that. It has to come from the top, and the only way we can influence the top is as a collective.

It’s not being “smug” or any of the things you’ve said I’ve done, you just aren’t able to find any good argument to the contrary so you attack the way I come off to you. I’m disagreeing with you on something you have strong feelings about, so I come off as an adversary and you project adversarial traits onto me which, to be clear, are not there.

Well with the way you argue, projecting your own actions onto the other person and not producing any argument of substance, this must happen quite a bit, and you must be a very proud and joyful person. Good for you.

lol

If understanding how things work is what makes a person superior

Didn’t say that

you probably don’t want to be shitting on it

Didn’t do that

accuse people of shit they aren’t doing, like say…. sUpPoRtiNG gEnoCiDe! […] casting aspersions at others

Didn’t do that either, see my last reply to this thread

what seems to be a bunch of smug and arrogant people sitting on high,

Tell me how you’re not doing that same exact thing

someone that is doing their best to ensure we keep our democracy.

No they’re not

What I see, are people is the democratic party willing to throw away votes over single-issue protests

FTFY

most of them have shown not to even understand.

Again, you’re assuming your understanding is better than anyone else’s and not colored by billion dollar, lifelong propaganda campaigns, manufacturing consent to enact bloody imperialism on the rest of the world and keep the (lucrative for private capital) war machine turning, rather than any actual history of the conflict in palestine or actual material plan to “protect democracy” here at home.

I’m not going to apologize to you for paying attention.

Neither will I

That’s not a fault.

Never said it was and I agree.

Acting like you’re superior and “understand how things work” better than anyone else, not recognizing the obvious wedge being driven between democratic voters and left-wing voters whom we otherwise agree with, is also doing wonders for your side. I’m sure your vote will make the difference in protecting rights that the Democrats have done absolutely nothing to defend in the face of power grabs and media smears from the right. I’m certain that the Democrats will do the right thing, just out of the goodness and JOY of their hearts, nevermind that their power is guaranteed by the Republicans being a worse option.

Never said you were supporting it, I said you were enabling it. If you want to conflate the two to protect your ego then that’s up to you.

Wow so it sounds like being the non-genocidal option would be a great way to get people to vote for you if you really care about winning

Why are we blaming voters again when a million dollar campaign loses against a historically unpopular criminal insurrectionist president… ?

The campaign has the power to pander to voters if it’s clear they can’t win without doing so, they just refuse to and instead are comfortably riding the threat of Trump to the finish line without offering a single thing more.

Your fellow voters that conscientiously object to genocide, are not your enemy. You are being failed by the Democrats, and you are enabling this genocidal policy by directing your anger at the voters instead of pressuring your candidate to change it. If they lose, it’s a strategic failure and they are the only ones to blame for it.

Replace reddit with democrats and you have a great parallel to our current voting situation.

The Democrats could just as easily offer not genocide and win all of these voters back.

vs crank it up to 11.

It’s already at 11

Surely you’ve seen the acronym around. IYKYK. If you don’t know then it’s not for you basically, it means they’re not going to give any further context. At least that’s what I assume, I never got it and it always came off kinda gatekeepy to me. Congrats on being today’s lucky 10,000.

That being said every comma they did use was also wrong.

It’s not the norm in inner city Detroit either…