The evil tyranny of science vs the proud rebellion of the Flat Earth Society?
I understand the desire for spirituality. I’m not some Reddit atheist that claims to be on a war against religion. In my view, religion is something that will likely gradually fade, and doesn’t need to be directly fought against. What I don’t like is when people use spirituality as a cudgel against science, and use it as the basis for arguing against a better world. Religion has been weaponized against queer folk like me, women, ethnic minorities, etc, and have lobbed attacks against science for centuries.
I answered your strawman with something equally dishonest. I’m not interested in getting into a debate with someone who genuinely believes matter does not exist outside of consciousness and fully believes in idealism, rejecting materialism. There’s absolutely no evidence for ideas being primary over matter, and moreover all it does is open up the way for absurdities and fantasy to exist as equals to hard science. Materialism helps us genuinely understand and interpret the world, each successive year affirming its utility as science expands and we understand more and more. Idealism is a willing rejection of understanding to entertain the idea of fantasy.
Nah, not going to waste my time entertaining justifications for belief in the unprovable. I already told you, I’m not here to debate like a Reddit atheist, I just wanted to address your absurd strawman in the beginning. Thoughts are products of the brain, not of some idealist “soul” or other analogue. Matter is objective, measurable, and knowable, through scientific analysis and repeated testing. It isn’t subjective.
No, lol. The ideas of people like Kastrup and Hoffman rely on consciousness being distinct from matter, and not a product of matter. Brainwaves are measurable, as biology advances we understand the electrical signals and chemicals forming perception. Further, matter is measurable and consistent, many humans can measure the same rock’s mass in isolation from each other and get the same result without knowing the mass or the results beforehand.
What you’re doing is deliberately holding onto idealism as the basis for justifying what you personally wish to be true. Idealism always returns, in some fashion, to religion, as explanation. It’s a further abstraction from science and replicatable results in favor of subjectivism and vibes.
You’re having a bit of a meltdown now because you can’t actually argue against science. You have a hypothesis, and reject anything going against that on the basis of your hypothesis resting on the immeasurable and immaterial.
This is circular reasoning on your part, equivalent to positing that I’m not real simply because you are not me. Consciousness is a material, measurable process, that increasingly is better understood the more science advances. It isn’t that I require no proof, it’s that materialism is the best method for understanding, and the more science advances, the more it affirms the materialist understanding. You flip this on its head, affirming that even if materialism is the better method for understanding the world and is increasingly affirmed while idealism remains stagnant and increasingly disaffirmed, you prefer it to be true so you hold to it.
You reject materialism, then ask for a materialist (science is materialist, it is the measuring and understanding of mater) proof of materialism. Nonsense.
Do you actually have thoughts in your head or do you just pick random internet retorts? I’ve never seen someone work themselves up so much while being so completely void of anything they’re saying
The evil tyranny of science vs the proud rebellion of the Flat Earth Society?
I understand the desire for spirituality. I’m not some Reddit atheist that claims to be on a war against religion. In my view, religion is something that will likely gradually fade, and doesn’t need to be directly fought against. What I don’t like is when people use spirituality as a cudgel against science, and use it as the basis for arguing against a better world. Religion has been weaponized against queer folk like me, women, ethnic minorities, etc, and have lobbed attacks against science for centuries.
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I answered your strawman with something equally dishonest. I’m not interested in getting into a debate with someone who genuinely believes matter does not exist outside of consciousness and fully believes in idealism, rejecting materialism. There’s absolutely no evidence for ideas being primary over matter, and moreover all it does is open up the way for absurdities and fantasy to exist as equals to hard science. Materialism helps us genuinely understand and interpret the world, each successive year affirming its utility as science expands and we understand more and more. Idealism is a willing rejection of understanding to entertain the idea of fantasy.
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Nah, not going to waste my time entertaining justifications for belief in the unprovable. I already told you, I’m not here to debate like a Reddit atheist, I just wanted to address your absurd strawman in the beginning. Thoughts are products of the brain, not of some idealist “soul” or other analogue. Matter is objective, measurable, and knowable, through scientific analysis and repeated testing. It isn’t subjective.
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No, lol. The ideas of people like Kastrup and Hoffman rely on consciousness being distinct from matter, and not a product of matter. Brainwaves are measurable, as biology advances we understand the electrical signals and chemicals forming perception. Further, matter is measurable and consistent, many humans can measure the same rock’s mass in isolation from each other and get the same result without knowing the mass or the results beforehand.
What you’re doing is deliberately holding onto idealism as the basis for justifying what you personally wish to be true. Idealism always returns, in some fashion, to religion, as explanation. It’s a further abstraction from science and replicatable results in favor of subjectivism and vibes.
You’re having a bit of a meltdown now because you can’t actually argue against science. You have a hypothesis, and reject anything going against that on the basis of your hypothesis resting on the immeasurable and immaterial.
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This is circular reasoning on your part, equivalent to positing that I’m not real simply because you are not me. Consciousness is a material, measurable process, that increasingly is better understood the more science advances. It isn’t that I require no proof, it’s that materialism is the best method for understanding, and the more science advances, the more it affirms the materialist understanding. You flip this on its head, affirming that even if materialism is the better method for understanding the world and is increasingly affirmed while idealism remains stagnant and increasingly disaffirmed, you prefer it to be true so you hold to it.
You reject materialism, then ask for a materialist (science is materialist, it is the measuring and understanding of mater) proof of materialism. Nonsense.
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Nothing exists.
Do you actually have thoughts in your head or do you just pick random internet retorts? I’ve never seen someone work themselves up so much while being so completely void of anything they’re saying
Friend, with all respect, only one in this conversation is intent on pushing their perspective.
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I think the barn is obscuring your view of the moon.